Well, welcome everybody.
Thank you so much for coming and welcome
to our annual one book presentation.
We're really grateful that you're
all here and thrilled to see so many
people in attendance. One of the.
But maybe the only great thing about
being stuck working virtually is that we
can have people come to our events from
across the state across the country.
So that's really exciting.
To have people outside of Green
River here as well.
I'm Jodi Siegel. I'm a librarian.
If you never college and I lead our campus,
one book program and I'm honored,
very honored to be hosting this event
along with our Office of Diversity,
Equity and Inclusion as part of
their Diversity Educational Series.
We're all very excited to be welcoming
a drama oluwo local activist and
author of our campus one book,
so you want to talk about race
and more recently, mediocre?
The dangerous legacy of white male America?
Before we get started,
I'd like to welcome.
A colleague of ours from
the Office of Diversity,
Equity and Inclusion Malu soussou to offer
a land acknowledgement so thank you.
Thank you so much, Jody.
So we would like to acknowledge the
federally recognized Indian tribe,
the ancestral keepers of the
land we are gathered on today.
We thank them for the immense
contributions to our state
and local history, culture,
economy and identity as a Washingtonian.
Thank you.
Jodie, you're muted?
Yeah, thank you.
I was just reading the host
would like me to unmute.
Somebody has to do it right,
so I'd like to offer a labor
acknowledgement as well.
And thank you Malo.
So the first part of this was
written by somebody else. I'm going
to share my screen one more time.
And share that. So this was the first
part was written by Doctor TJ Stewart
from Iowa State University and I
found this in a March 2021 issue of
diversity and higher AD and you can
see what he wrote on this slide here.
We must acknowledge that much of
what we know of this country today,
including its culture,
economic growth and development,
throughout history and across time has
been made possible by the labor of
enslaved Africans and their ascendants
who suffered the horror of the
transatlantic trafficking of their people.
Chattel slavery and Jim Crow.
We're indebted to their
labor and their sacrifice,
and we must acknowledge the tremors of
that violence throughout the generations
and the resulting impact that can be
can still be felt and witnessed today.
You see the impact just going
to move to some sources here.
We see the impact,
not aspects of the United States
from employment, housing, health,
education and wealth inequality.
To mass incarceration,
the school to prison pipeline
and police brutality,
all of which disproportionately impact
black Americans who are nearly six
times more likely to be incarcerated
than white Americans and who experience
inequitable treatment in the legal
system every step of the way,
from policing to prosecution to sentencing.
If you haven't had a chance to do so yet,
and the reason why I wanted to
get more specific is 'cause so
much of this connects to,
so you want to talk about race by our author.
So if you haven't had a
chance to read it yet.
In Chapter 6 Yoma,
Olivo talks about or answers the question
as police brutality really about race.
In Chapter 8,
she discusses the school to prison
pipeline and a sandwich between
those two chapters on racism in our
criminal legal system in Chapter 7.
She talks about how racism operates
in our places of work and her own
experiences of having to prove herself,
time and time again in
predominantly white workspaces.
So finally,
as part of this admittedly wide
reaching labor acknowledgment,
I want to acknowledge and thank our
colleagues of color Green River College,
especially the Black Caucus and Black
Student Union for your labor of time,
expertise and emotion to try to
help us grow to be a more equitable
and anti racist institution.
I don't think we might.
Faculty and staff are pulling our
fair share of that labor yet.
But I'm excited for all the work and
conversation that's happening on our campus.
And of course,
at this particular moment around
our one book.
So he wants to talk about race,
which is being read in classrooms
and student clubs as well as
in faculty and staff groups.
So before I hand this off to saga
to introduce our author today,
I just I have some thanks to make a
one book program brings a community get
together and learning and conversation.
Let me just exit from my sharing.
There we go.
And it's a collaborative program.
It's a collaborative effort and many of
you here today have helped create this
year's conversation by presenting talks,
participating in the book selection,
and and just doing many other things.
So I thank doctor Suzanne Johnson for
supporting the one book program's mission
and making the one book a GRC institution.
Thank you, too.
Amanda Chin saga, Diamond,
saracene for sharing your ideas and time so
generously and also for your presentations.
This fall. Thank you too to Jason Banks,
Stephanie Hoffman, Tina,
Christian, Erica, Eric, Chitra,
Solomonson, Marisela, Fleitas Lear,
Rebecca Allen and Mark Barrington.
For your presentations and participation
on a panel discussions this fall,
they were all informative,
enriching and thought provoking.
I also think many colleagues who weighed
in on choosing so you want to talk
about races or book for this year.
That list includes Amanda Shafer,
Amanda Chin, Andrew Benjamin,
Janey Haney, Marcy Syms, Katie Canyon.
Saga Guy and Theone Alvarado,
as well as two of our Deans Jimmy
Fitzgerald and Jennifer Dysart.
Thank you to the Green River College
Foundation for your support of the program,
and then finally,
I'd like to thank our student life and
student government for your support of
the one book program from the very start
of its event at Green River College.
And this is a good moment for you to say
that that student government provides
funding to buy books for students and so
that we can give them to you for free.
So if your student and you haven't
had a chance to read this book yet,
we have a copy for you.
Library and you can come by and pick it
up when we're open in a couple weeks.
We can also mail it to you if you want,
so you can just email me at one
book at greenriver.edu.
Uhm, please accept my apologies for anybody,
I didn't think.
And then I just forgot to list here,
so I'm just a quick word on our format today.
So we're going to have saga is going
to speak next and introduce our guest
author and then Joma Oluwole speak.
And then we'll have a question
and answer session.
And you have a couple of ways
to ask your questions.
You can see there's a question
and answer the bottom so you can
type it in and you can ask.
You'll be asked if you want to
answer it live and you can be unmuted
to ask your question live.
Or target can meet up for you.
And, uhm, I think that was about it.
So thank you again. All for being here.
I'm really excited to see all of you
and excited for our talk and saga.
I will turn it over to you, thanks.
Thank you Jody.
Hello everyone, we are all gathered here
today to meet here and learn from our
fascinating guest speaker. Ijeoma olou
oh OK, well we're all working
on that author of our one book,
so you want to talk about race
a New York Times bestseller.
While this was her first book,
you may have also recognized her from
her previous work in The Guardian,
the Stranger, New York magazine,
Huffington Post and many other publications.
She was formerly the editor at large for the
establishment and online media platform,
with content fully run by women.
She currently runs her own page on
sub stack entitled Ijeoma or Low.
Pull behind the book so please subscribe.
She is a recipient of many
awards and accolades,
including one of the most influential
people in Seattle by Seattle Magazine.
100 of the most influential
Americans by the root 2018 Audrey
Davis Visionary Leadership Award by
the Equal Opportunity Institute.
The Feminist Humanist Award by
the American Humanist Association.
But I'm also most grateful to introduce Mrs.
Oloo because of what her writing has
been able to do for me and my colleagues,
and our learning regarding
conversations around race,
and I'm looking forward to continuing
to learn from her and seeing what else
she has had to teach us and with that.
Please take it away. Thank you Simon.
It's lovely introduction and it is
a pleasure to be able to talk with
everyone today and I'm just going
to dive in because I really do want
to reserve as much time and space
as possible for our Q&A.
My book,
so you want to talk about race has
been out for quite a few years now
and I think a lot of us who write and
speak on issues of race and racism.
You know,
we put our work out there just in
the hopes that it will be of use.
And these last couple of years,
especially since June of 2020,
have seen a sharp increase in
the interest in artworks,
not just book sales,
but requests for talks and
consultation on issues of race
and racism in the United States,
my peers and I were kind of overwhelmed
at first by how many more organizations
seemed suddenly willing to have
these important conversations?
On race.
We do know, of course,
that these conversations weren't
necessarily led by the generosity.
Of these organizations themselves,
but by the insistence of black,
indigenous,
and other people of color within
those organizations.
But what I have also noticed in
many of my peers have as well is
that the amount of work done to
address systemic issues around race
and racism has not matched the
interest with which organizations
wish to read and talk about race.
There seems to be still a persistent
gap in what we are willing to learn and
talk about versus what we are willing to do.
I truly hope.
That all of this discussion
on race can lead to action.
I not only hope,
but I insist.
I do this work because systemic
racism is literally killing people.
This is not something that
we can afford to talk
about without action,
and so as an organization and
as members of an organization,
it has an important impact not
only on your student and staff,
but on your community at large.
I hope that you will be willing to
take some of the steps necessary.
To have real concrete measurable
action on issues of race and racism,
and so with that.
I'm going to talk about some of the
things that I hope that people will be
willing to do in order to move past
talking and into action on issues of risk.
The first tip I have is you
have to decenter whiteness.
It is vital. That we remember.
That this work is not about the
edification of people of color.
This work is about.
I mean, sorry,
it's not about the edification of whiteness.
This work is about protecting
populations of color,
reducing the harm done by systemic racism.
And creating systemic change.
It is important to remember.
That we have often been conditioned to set
our rightness even in our anti racist work.
And that in itself is a
continuation of white supremacy.
It is vital that we remember that
if these actions cannot be felt.
By populations of color,
they don't count.
So it is vital that we remember that
the people who are used to being heard
in these discussions maybe should
not always be the first to be heard.
The people who are used to being
centered should not always be centered,
and people who are used to receiving
appreciation for the work that they
should have been doing for a long time
perhaps do not always need to be thanked.
Next, it is important to learn your history.
We cannot figure out
where we are now and why.
If we don't know how we got there.
I have found. That white America
and white society at large.
Is deeply afraid of investigating its
history when it comes to systemic racism.
But it is vital that we do that work.
There is a collective gaslighting
of people of color that happens when
we refuse to acknowledge the ways in
which a history of systemic oppression.
Has impacted populations of color.
There is no way that you can address
current issues if you don't know
how these issues occurred and if
you don't understand the ways in
which systemic racism has shaped the
various systems you are operating
within to create disparate outcomes.
Next, it is important to learn how
your history informs the present.
It is not enough to share horror stories
of the past and apologize for those.
It is not enough to be able
to quote historical facts.
You must be able to draw the
parallels between what happened in
the past and what is happening today.
Next, it is important as an organization.
And as individuals to measure
the impacts of systemic racism.
It is important to remember.
That what we are fighting is not sentiment.
While racism can find comfort.
In the bigotry and even hatred.
Of people against populations of color.
The main impact that is felt.
Can be measured intangible
impacts on our health,
wealth and well being.
It is important to be able to
measure the impact of systemic
racism on your campus and your
workspaces in your local community.
You cannot measure progress.
If you haven't measured where you are.
It is important to be transparent.
Often when I'm talking with
different organizations,
especially educational institutions.
I find that even when they are willing
to do some of the work to measure.
The impacts systemic racism on campus.
They are very wary of
sharing that information.
There are many reasons why you must
be transparent as to what is happening
on your campus and in your community.
One like I said earlier, it is vital.
To counter.
The dangerous and violent gaslighting
that happens to populations of color,
especially in majority white spaces.
It is vital that we let people
know that we see what is happening.
That it is not all in our heads.
That we aren't making it up.
That we aren't broken individuals
and are instead targeted collective.
It is vital that we be transparent.
Because people need to be able to hold
institutions to account for the progress
they do or do not make on issues.
We cannot come up with solutions
as an institution when those
most impacted by the harm.
We are not able to have full access
to the data needed to make informed
requests of those institutions.
It is important to identify your
power within oppressive systems.
It is important not only to
identify what these systems are
doing to populations of color.
But it is also vital that you identify
your personal power within those systems.
We all have power to some degree.
Some of us have far more than others.
If you are a student,
you do have a degree of power within
your educational institution.
If you are a faculty, you have more.
If you are in administration,
you have more.
If you are the parent of a student,
you have more.
It is vital to identify how
you interact with oppression.
This can be scary because within that
identification you may find where you
have been upholding oppression and harm.
And it is natural for people who
care about others to not want to hear
that they have been causing her.
But if you can't identify where
you have the power to cause harm.
You will fail to identify where
you have the power to create,
healing and reparation.
It is vital that you look at the
power you have within systems
that you identified that power.
That you share that identification with
your peers and ask others to join you
in efforts to dismantle harmful systems.
It is vital that we recognize the
role that capitalism plays in
racial oppression and exploitation.
And know that all institutions that fail
to address this will not be able to address
white supremacy supremacy effectively.
Because wherever. Your efforts.
Clash with what impacts your bottom line.
Your finances will win out if you are not
willing to address the ways in which.
Capitalism and systemic racism
have always gone hand in hand.
Look at where you are financially
invested in systemic racism and being
willing to take on those investments.
If you ever hope to become
an anti racist institution,
if you ever hope to become
an anti racist individual.
You must be willing to look at it.
I recommend that you do some now.
It is important that you be systemic.
We live in an age where it is quite
easy to go on an individual journey
towards liberation and anti racism.
But it's important to remember
that these are systems systems
that are working to ensure.
That populations of color will
remain oppressed and exploited.
There is no individual journey you
can take that will impact those
systems to a measurable degree.
Especially if you have racial privilege.
It is vital that you look at this
struggle beyond your own personal
growth and enlightenment and continue
to keep the work that you do.
On the systems around us and your
interactions and power within those systems.
It is really easy for educational
institutions to fall into the
trap of thinking.
That if we talk enough and have enough
individual bits of enlightenment that
we will somehow change a massive
institution in the way in which it functions,
and that is not true.
If policies and procedures do not
change systemic racism in your
institutions will not change.
It is vital that we stay intersectional.
If you are fighting for populations of color,
you must fight for all people
within those populations.
If you were fighting for black liberation,
you must fight for all black people.
That means queer black people,
transgender black people,
disabled black people,
incarcerated black people,
black women, black nonbinary people,
and so many more.
It is important to remember.
That when we are not intersectional
all we are doing is creating
new hierarchies of oppression.
And our anti racist work will
begin to mimic the white supremacy
that we are trying to distance
ourselves and free ourselves from.
Intersectionality is the
foundation of the work that I do.
And intersectionality must be grounded
in understanding of how racial
privilege works and how other systems
of oppression interact with racism.
It is important to stay humble.
Our definition of freedom.
Is limited. By our lived
experiences in oppressive systems.
This means that even I, as someone who
has dedicated her life to learning,
speaking and teaching about
issues of systemic racism,
I'm limited in my idea of what
freedom from these systems can be.
I must remain humble if I want to
remain true to my goals, which is true.
Liberation for all populations of
color impacted by white supremacy.
I must be willing to hear.
Where those who have been freed by the
work of past generations and even some
of my work to a greater extent than I am,
are able to see further than me and
tell me where I need to change course.
And tell me where I have been doing harm.
It is vital that we stay humble in this work.
That we recognize how much the
systemic programming of white
supremacy has impacted all of us that
would be open to hearing about it.
Open to learning.
It is important to be accountable.
If you are not building accountability
into your anti racist work,
you are not doing the work.
This means that institutions
must have clear concrete steps
for not only measuring progress.
But who gets to deem that progress,
were they?
They need to have steps for what happens
when they fall short of progress.
And they need to make sure that they
are incentivizing the work being done.
This work must be specific.
When I'm talking about systemic
racism in institutions a lot of times
I talk about populations of color,
but when they're doing this work,
it is important that we are specific as
possible as to how certain populations
are impacted by systemic racism.
This means that when you are
looking at student populations,
you are not just looking at the
population of students of color,
but you are looking at black students,
native students, Asian students and more.
It is important that we have separate
metrics for the health and well being.
Of different populations of
color in your organizations.
It is important that we are aware
of the different ways with which
systemic racism is operated against
different communities of color,
and that our solutions serve all
of these populations in the way
that meets their specific needs.
And finally, it is important to always
prioritize the safety and well being
of populations of color in this work.
I have found quite often.
That students of color and faculty of color.
Are expected to do the bulk of
work and take the bulk of the risk.
In making an institution more anti racist.
There is no way to white supremacy that
can be found through the exploitation
of the labor of populations of color.
It is important that we remember that
there is no amount of edification of
whiteness that is worth the unsafety and
the exploitation of people of color.
How we do this work matters.
And it is vital that every step
of the way we ask,
how do populations of color
benefit from this step?
From this discussion from this work.
If you cannot find that benefit,
you are not doing the work.
And it is vital that those of us in the
room who are people of color remember
that we have the right to expect all
of this work to directly benefit.
We have the right to expect
our safety to be prioritized.
No institution can call itself
anti racist that disregards the
safety and well being of people of
color in its population.
We can do this work.
It is hard and it can be messy,
and it's never perfect.
But staying open and having these discussions
in real authentic ways that center.
The needs and humanity of people of color.
Can get us there.
It is vital to remember that the
harmful systems that we interact
with everyday were built by people.
People no better,
no smarter than you or I.
And they can be taken down by people,
and they can be changed in real, measurable,
meaningful ways by people as well.
One of the important secrets that the
powers that be try to keep from us.
Is how every single day
you're giving him opportunity.
In our interactions with systems of
power to make choices that can uphold
those systems or challenge them.
But every day we are given
opportunities to make real,
measurable impacts on the
lives of people of color.
There's a reason why so often
these discussions lie in the hearts
and minds and not in actions.
Because it serves the powers that
be for us to think that we must
earn the love of every white person
in this country in order to create
change instead of the simple truth.
That we need to change the way
our systems operate and the way
in which we interact with them.
This work is hard. But in some ways,
not nearly as hard as it's made to seem.
And the reason why we have not made
more progress is because people
have been actively invested in
making sure that we put our efforts.
In spaces that are least
likely to create real change.
I hope that this talk.
And your questions will help lead
you down a path of figuring out
where you have personal power
within your institutions and your
community to make real change.
Thank you.
Thank you, that was wonderful.
I have some questions for you already.
The first question in the Q&A is
similar to a question that Marcie
Sims English 126 class has submitted,
so I'll just kind of read a
combination of both. One of them,
the first ones from Allison Barlow and
the student question the classes Aaron
Cornett and they were asking what was
the most challenging Chapter 2 right?
And then at any point while
you were writing the book,
were there any doubts or did
you struggle through anything?
And how did you overcome those
doubts or struggles?
That's a great question.
Writing a book is hard.
It's really hard, and it's not fun.
I don't recommend it to anyone who.
Likes to keep liking writing because
I don't know anyone that I would
ever want to spend time with.
Who truly enjoys writing a book?
It's kind of like having a baby like
you go through this awful thing you
think you're going to die and then,
like a year later, you're like,
oh it couldn't have been that bad.
Let me do it again.
And then you're like what was, I thinking?
So it was a challenge and I
don't think I was quite ready for
emotionally how difficult it would be.
I had been a writer for a while,
writing articles, but there's something
quite different about living in a project
for months and months years on end.
For me the hardest chapter.
Was. Well, the hardest part was when
I was writing about my brother's
experience in primary school.
That was something that I think
emotionally I hadn't processed.
It was actually something I
hadn't revisited in my mind.
You know, since I was in school
until it was time to write.
And so I was not ready for
how difficult that would be.
And that was a real.
That was a that was a part where
I got through writing a draft of
that and needed to take a nap.
You know, I needed to lay down,
and it's also a chapter.
I do not read.
I try to read it out loud once and
it was far too emotional for me.
I actually don't read from
the book at all anymore.
But that was one that I never could.
And you know, I think that.
When you're writing a book,
in questioning whether or not,
especially when you're talking about issues
of race and you're getting vulnerable,
it is really vital to take parts of
it really seriously and then also
recognize what parts you can let go.
So for me,
as a black woman writing a book about race,
it was vital that I took my my
responsibility to especially
not only to the black community,
but to communities outside of mine.
Other communities of color that where I
have not lived a day in that experience,
and yet I've including.
Information about how race impacts them.
I had to take that very
seriously and part of how I.
Did that and felt like
I could write about it.
One was,
you know,
paying respected peers from those
communities to look at the work and
and provide their input and kind of
letting down this idea that I had
to have it all down because I I don't.
And that was vital.
And then it was also really important for
me to remember who my target audience was,
who I owed that sort of care
to and who I didn't.
You have to recognize when
you're doing work like this.
You're always going to.
You're going to get angry emails and
letters from white people who feel
like this book doesn't serve them in
the way that they hoped it would feel like.
It threatens them,
and that you're going to have to decide.
You know whether you want
to make yourself miserable.
Absorbing all of that,
or whether you want to just say it's
obvious you weren't ready for this.
Yeah,
or this wasn't for you and let
that go and I'd say for any writer
for no matter what you're writing,
one of the most important things
you need to be able to do,
especially in this Internet age,
is define your audience and know who
you're writing for and who you're not,
because we can think in this world
where everything is available to us.
But that means that everyone
who interacts with our work must
get something out of it,
and that's simply not true.
There was another student question from
martial class that I thought was interesting
too and connected to what you just said.
Johann Castro Salgado asks you mentioned
in the preface of your book that you wish
that you had dedicated more space to our
indigenous population and what they face,
and I was just wondering if given the chance,
what would you have added?
You know I, I would say that part of the
reason why it didn't come up was a systemic
issue that I hadn't fully addressed,
which is the lack of space,
extreme lack of space that indigenous
people are given to write their own stories,
especially in academia.
And so for me, I think what it
would have looked like is more.
Would it actually looked like
in my next video 'cause I didn't
learn from that experience,
which is recognizing that just because
there's that that that gap exists
for a reason, a systemic reason?
I have to do the work to move around it
and so doing a lot more first person
interviews and discussion to kind of
make up those gaps and recognize that
even if the data is not provided,
because often when you're looking
up so you want to talk about race,
it's backed up by a lot of data
and a lot of times.
Organizations and governments will
use a lack of numbers to justify
not providing data on populations,
and if you're working from
data and writing from that,
oftentimes if you aren't aware of that.
That can cause you to leave whole
populations out of your scholarship,
and so for me,
recognizing that and working around
that and saying you know what,
just because this organization
doesn't have this information
doesn't mean it doesn't exist,
and recognize that no population
of color suffers in silence,
and so finding alternatives to
get that information is vital.
And and I would have done that,
I would have,
you know,
worked harder to reach directly out to
the people who are working to make up
those gaps within native communities.
And I don't know what the book
would look like honestly,
because in those conversations I will say,
like you know,
when I was writing the model
minority myth chapter,
a lot of that chapter was shaped
by my conversations with people
within the Asian community.
With issues I never would have thought
to address or include because it's not
my lived experience and so that is,
you know, something I think.
I would have absolutely you know
if I could go back and redo,
I would do.
Thank you we have another
question from Alison Barlow.
I'm a mixed person,
half white and half black.
Whenever police brutality occurs,
I feel torn and upset.
I feel angry because black people
have been so oppressed and it
impacts my people and my family.
But I'm half white and that
makes it more complicated.
Sometimes I want to hate white people,
but being half white presents
prevents me from doing so.
How do I navigate this
and how do I handle it?
And I understand you're also biracial.
Yeah so my my mother is white.
I don't identify as half white because
I personally don't think that's a thing.
You can be the way in which
race functions in society.
Whiteness is a designation of exclusion.
It's a thing you fall from right?
And the way in which we look at it,
like I don't. Cops don't go.
Oh let me be half as hard on this person.
And it doesn't mean it's skin tone.
Privilege doesn't exist.
It absolutely does.
And I do benefit from my
skin privilege in many ways.
But as a visibly black person,
I don't get half of whiteness to carry
around with me in the world, but.
I will say this.
It is important to recognize that.
Anger is valid,
but this is your history and your people,
so it's not.
I see what happens to black
people and I'm part black.
That is your blood that is part of who
you are that is happening to you as well,
and anger is valid.
Focus on the systems and
how it works there is.
If we keep it on an individual level and say,
well now I hate white people.
It's not useful. It's not going to help.
It's not actually gonna make it
easier for you to move the world.
It's not going to heal you,
and it's also not going to give
you the awareness that you need to
be able to fight for your survival
in the survival of your community,
because many white people are
operating within the system.
The way in which they've been
programmed to it doesn't absolve
them from accountability,
and you can be very angry about that,
but it's important to remember
that until that system changes.
The individuals matter much less,
and so that's where you know.
Look at it and look at how the system has
been designed and keep your focus on that,
and then you can absolutely look at
how the white people that you love
and white people in your community
are interacting with those systems
and upholding those systems.
And you can be angry about that.
You can address that directly,
and it doesn't mean that you
hate people as a whole.
You know,
I hate white supremacy with a passion
and I get very angry when I see the
ways in which people I love even
my own mother can participate in a
whole systems of white supremacy.
And whether I choose to work with them
or not on that is not of love for me.
I can hold them responsible,
I can hold them accountable.
I can hold my anger and none of
it means that you know the fact
that my mother is white.
I don't have a right to be angry about that,
so just, you know, keep the focus.
Understand how it works,
and then I'd say it's also
really important to recognize.
That you do likely move through the
world if you are. If your parent.
If you have a fully white parent with
a fair amount of skin tone privilege,
recognize how that works.
Recognize the ways in which you may
have been programmed to lean into
that and uphold white supremacy and
racism against darker skinned people.
Be accountable to that while also
recognizing that pretty much every
black person in this country has the
blood of some white person in them
due to the horrors of chattel slavery
and the ways in which sexual violence was.
Used against women.
So recognize that as well and that.
The way in which race was constructed.
Means that for me personally,
I'm constantly thinking do my efforts
do the way I see myself in the world,
and move through the world.
As a black person with some skin
tone privilege, does it benefit?
Those with less or does it harm?
And that's how I how I like to look
at that and look at my own, you know,
racial identity within blackness.
Nice so we have a question similar,
but not exactly the same
from an anonymous attendee.
I'm an Asian adoptee who was
adopted into a white family lately.
I have been trying to talk
about race with my parents,
but find it difficult to
get through to my father.
He refuses to acknowledge when a
hate crime has to do with race and
I was wondering if you had a calm
way of explaining how race does
play a role in many societal issues.
That's tough and first of all,
I will say this.
If you're doing this work,
recognize its generosity, right like I think.
A lot of times.
Those of us who have white parents
people are coming with white parents.
Feel like we have to.
Be this bridge program. And.
We don't, and it's really,
really vital that we recognize that
when we decide to do this work and
have these conversations that we are.
Being generous and that we shouldn't have to,
and any emotional toll that takes
on this is real and we have the
right to feel hurt or unsafe or
angry or however we feel about that.
So a lot of times people have
these conversations,
they're frustrated and they don't
want to acknowledge they're also hurt.
And they're also feeling unseen,
you know,
and know that you actually have the
right to be seen by your family.
You have the right to expect your
family to want to understand how
race operates in the country.
If they have a child of color
like that is the barast that we
should be asking of parents.
If you're going to be raising
a child of color,
that's the least you can do so know that.
But you know practically,
we love our families.
Often we want to have relationships
and want them to understand us.
So for me, part of what like where I kind of.
Opened up, you know,
dialogue with my mom and
I do write about that is.
I had to sit with think what
would a relationship with her look
like if she heard me.
You know what would it look like if
she was willing to have productive
conversations on this and learn
what would it look like if I
felt comfortable and safe going
to her about these things?
How close would we be?
How often would I want to talk to
her and I take that vision 1st and
then I look and see what's in the
way of that and ioffer that up.
And so I I always kind of start up
with like this is where I think we could be.
This is what I think we could have
and we don't right now because.
I don't feel like it,
and this is how this is impacting
me and impacting our relationship.
Since I'm starting.
First off from that place that
says I believe we can have.
This can really help a lot
of times white parents
of children of color are afraid of
addressing issues of race because they
are afraid that's going to open up a
divide between them and their children
and actually it does the opposite when
you could have those discussions and
then when it comes to trying to get
them to understand how systems work,
I would say it's really, you know the
approach I take for any individual.
So much trouble with that often is
I first of all have to be really
aware of the statistics locally,
nationally and talk about it and
then talk about what the assumptions
we have about those numbers needs.
Because the truth is, is that if.
Black people are, you know,
six times more likely to encounter
violence in a police stop.
And you say that's not systemic,
then what you're saying by extension is
that black people are saying that it's
six times more necessary to control
and use violence against black people.
But they are six times the threat.
And so oftentimes,
being open and saying these are the
options I have when I look at this
data and this is what I believe.
Because I'm not racist because I believe
you know that all that there is nothing
inherent about a population of color
that would make them more violent.
But you know,
that would make them less motivated
to all these different things that
oftentimes people have to say is
about race and then talk about it.
And sometimes it's also important
to recognize health systems got
to be where they are.
So if you're talking about things
like hate crimes or police brutality,
a lot of times where people.
Have trouble recognizing it is
because they don't understand the
actual history of these systems
in our society and that they were
built to always serve different
populations in different way.
If you don't get that we are.
You know,
the same cop that people that white
people would turn to in a time of
need is the same crop that could
threaten the lives of a black or
brown person in a traffic stop.
And you don't get that.
That's the in many ways.
The job description and the ways in
which those systems have always worked.
Then you're going to look at it and see
a dissonance that threatens your own reality.
It doesn't actually threaten your
reality of how you move through the world
with these systems to see that they
were designed differently for pocket
for different populations of color.
So I think sometimes talking about
that and being clear about the history
and how it got to where it is,
can really make a difference.
We have a question from Megan Racer.
My students study your work and intercultural
communications and in fact this Sunday
they are watching your Google Talk.
If there was one big takeaway from today's
talk to share with them, what would it be?
For the students you know,
one thing I would say is when
we look at young people even.
Student age people and I
know for community colleges,
there's a wider range of ages.
I was an older student when I went to school,
but oftentimes we look at those years in that
experience as experimental and not real.
And it's important to recognize that
college campuses are some of the most
important spaces in any society in any
community for shaping our collective
morals and the way in which we relate
to each other and interact with systems.
It is not just practice.
It is not just where you're supposed to.
Rebel for fun.
That what we do here to
address systemic racism,
not only changes the way in which people
in coming generations will learn on campus,
it changes the way a major
employer in your area hires and
creates a workspace for people.
It changes the general ways in which
this entire large population moves
and interacts with the community,
so it's vital to recognize that the
work that you do as students to create
an environment that is more aware
and more willing to tackle systemic.
Racism.
The more real lasting work you're
actually doing for the community
and yourselves that it's not,
you know it's not just play.
You're not going to suddenly get
out into the workforce and know
how to make change.
If you don't make it now,
and you likely will not have the
an opportunity as large to make
change as you do right now and then.
I would also say it's just important
to recognize the collective power that
you have as students when you come together,
and that if you have any teachers
on your campus.
Who are using all the right buzzwords?
Who have the right inclusion signs
up in their windows and you don't
feel like they're doing the work
that you actually have the right
to expect that you have the right
to make demands of support and
active allyship from them.
I'm going to skip to the last
question that just was submitting.
I think it touches on what you just said.
This anonymous attendees said.
Road I was struck by the comment you made
earlier that have anti racist actions
don't truly benefit people of color.
They aren't really useful.
I feel like we have a culture of
silence when it comes to race issues.
On this campus.
We know there are problems here
and people are encountering harm,
both intentional and not,
but I'm at a loss of how I can move.
I can help move us forward.
It seems like we are in a
constant conversation but not
sure we are making progress.
Do you have any ideas?
That's that's really.
That's that's a great question.
There's a couple of things one,
I think it's really vital to not
just have these conversations
like we're having here,
but to actually Createspace for
populations of color within campus to come
together and talk about their experience.
A different conversation happens when
people are in a space of safety where
they feel like they can openly share,
and a different transformation happens
and and how we look at these issues
when we can see them as collective
issues and not individual problems.
So one I would say it's really vital for a.
Campus to take that seriously and
to create that space and to support
that space and so where students
can come together in that and where
white students can support that.
It is vital as well.
And then I would say it's really,
really important.
That you demand that campuses
make it transparent.
The ways in which they can have measured
the impacts of racism on campus.
And this means that when you
bring individual problems to them,
it is you.
You have the right to expect
not only a campus to investigate
that individual problem,
but to look for systemic patterns
of that issue.
If you have an issue of
microaggressions and a class,
and if you talk to a professor,
it is not enough to tell that
professor don't do that anymore.
You must then look through the history.
That that professor may have had in
class to see if you have any patterns,
you must look through that department and
see if there have been patterns right?
And look and say what have we
done in this environment to to
make these actions happen.
Anti racism I'm sorry.
Racism thrives in environments where
the environments are conducive to it.
You will never have a racist action on campus
where the environment doesn't play a role.
Students do what they feel
they can get away with.
So do faculty.
And so it is really vital
that campuses look at that,
and so I would say if you are a
student or even a a faculty member
who really cares about this issue,
always look beyond the initial
issue and say how has this
campus enabled this to happen?
Where is it enabling it to happen
and address that issue and expect
them to address it as well,
so that could be really individual things.
It can be, you know,
issues that students are having in
classes that they're having with text.
It can be issues that faculty of
color are having with their peers.
Or with any kind of tenure
or review processes,
it's important to recognize that these
things never happen in a vacuum,
and you actually want to seek
out the systemic,
because even if it ends up being that so far,
it's only impacted this one person
recognizing and finding systemic in it
will ensure it will not impact more.
Just as a follow up, what would your
response be to those faculty members who?
Use exclusive of academic freedom.
That's you know it's so funny because.
Faculty use discretion constantly.
You have to write.
There's only so much you can teach.
There's only so much you can talk about.
Every piece of material that
you decide to read every every
question that you put in an exam.
Everything that you decide to discuss
or not is a choice you are making.
You are deciding what is
appropriate and what is not.
Academic freedom never compels
you to put in things that cause
harm to populations of color,
and yet time and time again.
I see faculty and staff act like they
have no choice but to include this.
No, what you have is a preference.
You looked at this.
You looked at the harm it might cause
and you decided you didn't care enough.
To make that one of the things
you don't include,
there are plenty of things that
every single teacher on campus
decides not to do because they deem
it inappropriate for the class.
And So what you're actually saying
when you claim academic freedom
around things that are harming
students of color is you're saying
that you thought it was worth it,
that you thought the harm was worth it.
You made a decision,
you were not compelled by some force by
the Angel of academic freedom to put that in.
You decided that you didn't
care about the harm and own it.
Say that with your chest
stop claiming like you.
You had no choice.
Say you know what?
Yeah,
I looked at this and I thought it was going
to hurt students of color and I don't care.
If you're willing to say that
at least then students will know
whether or not to take your class.
But this idea that we aren't constantly
curating what we do and do not talk about.
Is ridiculous,
I see this as a writer all the time.
To, you know, the freedom of the
press or freedom of the press.
Yeah, you know, freedom of the press.
You could write anything, but you don't.
You don't write.
You don't write everything.
So you made a conscious choice
and I and I really want.
Professors to take accountability for that.
And this could also be easily
translated to policies driven by
the campus and administrators and
staff on this campus as well.
So we're not just picking on faculty, right?
And it's also, I think,
important to recognize too,
that when we're talking
about academic freedom,
and it's 'cause I think,
a lot of times to this around
policy and whether what environment
it creates for white students,
academic freedom will also be used.
We have to recognize that we actually have
to see racism as violence because it is.
You know,
study after study has shown that the
impact of racism not only is whether
or not a cop is going to shoot us at,
you know,
it's it's the impact of how well we can
participate in our education, right?
This money,
this time this effort we're putting into
this our own sense of safety,
its impact, it impacts on mental
health or physical health.
The day-to-day ways in which we
interact with racism and are exposed
to the violence of racism impacts
our lives in measurable ways.
It is an act of violence,
and so I think it is really
important when we're looking at
academic freedom in that sense.
Recognize that what you're basically
saying is that you feel that it
is important for these acts of
violence to continue on campus,
that you view that an important
part of the college experience.
I don't think it is,
but we need to call it what it is.
Yeah, thank you.
Just to kind of pivot away from this,
someone was very interested in
learning about the art piece
that is behind you and does.
Does it have any particular
meaning for you in your work,
or is it just a beautiful piece
that you are that you have?
This is painted by Carolyn hit,
so she's a local artist of
color here in Seattle,
and it does mean a lot to me just
because of the way I met Carolyn.
Actually,
so when the pandemic hit my partner
and my business manager and I
started an artist Relief Fund,
you know, as creatives, we saw how.
Disastrously, our communities were impacted.
My partners and musician and my
business manager is also an art curator.
So all of our community,
you know, every event, every gig,
everything was canceled and most
most of us don't have insurance.
Don't have backup.
And so we started an artist Relief Fund
to get funds directly to Seattle art.
Seattle Area artists focused primarily on,
you know, well anyone,
anyone any artist could get funds,
but our outreach was focused on
populations of color and queer,
trans,
and disabled populations of artists
in Seattle area and what started as a
tiny project ended up dispersing over
$1,000,000 directly to Seattle area
artists and one of the first artists that.
We sent funds to was Carolyn hit and
that's how we met her and she runs a
collective studio that actually houses,
you know, a workspace for multiple
artists in the community.
So we met her.
She was able to,
you know,
pay her rent for the month and
keep her studio running and give
her time to figure out how to
operate in this new reality and.
When she reached out and said that
she had been able to do that,
and you know, maybe we'll post.
I started looking at the art and I was like,
Oh my God, I love this meeting so much.
And so I actually.
But we bought 2 paintings from
her and were friends and we've
collaborated on work and she's
actually collaborated on work to
put back into the fund as well.
So you know,
both of the paintings I that we
own from her mean a lot to me
on on multiple levels.
Yes, beautiful.
So every question from Olivia Lambey,
where do you think the country
is on the journey to reaching
racial equality and what feelings,
thoughts and reflections are you
holding in this moment for yourself,
your family, and our community?
There are a couple ways to look at that.
It is important to recognize first of all,
how incredibly far away we are.
You know that we're still in a
country where the average black
holes will makes 12 to 13 times less
than the average white household.
You know, we're still in a country
where the color of your skin is one of
the top indicators for your health,
welfare, and well being in this country,
and that those numbers where they
haven't improved have in many ways
back slip since the time that Doctor
King was marching the streets.
For access to jobs and housing
and so many other necessities for
black people in this country,
it is vital that we recognize that.
And that can be very
demoralizing and heartbreaking.
And So what I always try to
remember in context of this.
The primary motivations of the work
I do is my love for black people.
My belief that Black Lives matter, right?
And that means you must always be aware.
Of the inherent value of every
single individual black purse.
And this means that even
where I know I will not see.
And added to white supremacy in my lifetime.
Every place where my work and the
work of so many of my peers can
make a measurable impact on the
lives of any individual person.
I have to celebrate that because
why is supremacy?
Always wants to shrink us down
to the whole right.
I can't do anything as a black
woman that doesn't seem to reflect
the blackness as a whole.
And another black person can't
do anything that isn't seen to
reflect upon me as a black person.
But every black individual has inherent
value and beauty and is worthy of
love and safety and protection.
And so the work that we do if you
don't take the time to celebrate it.
Every bit of progress in the ways
in which it impacts these lives
that we should be holding so dear.
This work will kill us and that's
when I kind of keep in mind.
And that's where I keep doing the work.
I keep finding this space.
And knowing that,
where I can create that space in every
day that I affirm that and say this matters?
Because, you know,
these five individuals helped
by this effort matter.
These 10 individuals helped
by this effort matter.
I'm doing the work and I'm staying true to
the one thing that white supremacy wants.
All of us to be ignorant of above all else,
which is that we are individuals
worthy of care and respect.
And so that's really what I keep in mind.
I won't see it in my lifetime, you know,
but I will see and I think we do see
regularly examples of pockets of safety.
You know, pockets for healing.
For black joy, for joy of other populations,
of color that are created, and every
single one of those moments matters.
You know, it's interesting
what you were saying earlier.
We should. You know we're talking.
I think it was Allison who was
saying she was biracial and she.
You told her not to look at the
individuals you know white as individuals
and you know give us stomach problem,
but it's so hard because
it's black individuals.
We know we don't have that privilege, right?
Like you said,
how we interact with others and how
others interact with other black
folks is really deep reflection
on how they're going to.
Attract and work with us.
And so how do you?
Because I know I've dealt with this.
How do you not?
How do you get past the anger of it all?
Well,
wouldn't they would say first
to to the observation you had
is actually really spot on,
because what needs to happen in our
shifts of how we look at collective
image of individual responsibility
is we actually need to shift on
both sides of the spectrum so we
actually need an increase in suing
populations of color as individuals.
And we need a decrease in seeing the
the manufactured individualism of
whiteness that tells why people they
actually aren't accountable for the
ways in which they work as a collective.
So oftentimes why people will get
offended if you call them white people.
Among, right? I'm a person.
We're all people.
They get to move through the
world as individuals in the way
that they feel absolves them from
accountability for how they contribute
to collective white supremacy,
and so that is shift that
needs to happen as well.
Why people need to look at how they are
part of a collective and how whiteness
is not just the color of your skin,
it's a political and social identity.
That you participate in and you
are not acting as an individual.
You are acting as a collective and you
are adding to the cumulative impacts
of white supremacy on people of color.
And so that's really vital.
You know,
for me.
It's really important that I
remember when I'm fighting for
in keeping going in this work.
I am we cannot just become what
we are fighting against.
We can't be just about what
we are fighting against.
I am not just about white supremacy,
I'm so much more important
than white supremacy.
I'm fighting for black joy, right?
I am fighting for healing and restoration
and if I don't prioritize that,
if I don't spend more time glorying
in that and creating space for that,
I'm actually failing in the work that I do,
and so there are plenty of times
where I have to. I have to realize.
No one will heal me.
Britney.
Right,
there's a lot of work that whiteness
needs to do to dismantle white supremacy.
At no point in time in this
work will they come in and say.
Now, let's heal you.
They can't and they won't.
And we have to prioritize that.
We have to create that collective
space for that and and we can
look at that systemically as well.
And I think our systemic efforts
have to be geared towards that more,
not just individual efforts.
It's not just about me taking
a nap when I need a nap, right?
It's about looking at like what other
black mothers need to be able to
continue on and to raise their families.
And to, you know,
have some individual joy in healing, right?
It's about looking as a community
at what we need,
and that's really what keeps me going.
Is having space for.
That and then also giving space for grief.
Like I think a lot of times,
the things that we don't Createspace for,
they leak out and they drain us.
In a way that continues to perpetuate itself
because we haven't created space for it.
If you don't Createspace for
grief for outrage to cry,
and to scream and to wail.
At the real horror.
That we often experience it will
filter through everything that you do.
It will correct it and make it
seem less genuine.
And it will actually increase.
The harm done to you.
Set time aside for it and say you know what?
I gotta fill this right now and I have
to do that regularly doing this work.
There are things I choose not to
write about because I need to just be
a black woman who's harmed by this.
I need to sit and cry and hug
my partner and hug my children.
And, you know, feel awful and.
Then come back to the work that I do.
You don't owe.
If you are a person of color,
you don't owe white America your work.
You don't owe them any stoicism.
And you absolutely we deserve to be grieved.
Every single person harmed by this
system deserves to be grieved and and set.
A time set time aside for that part
of how we remember how important
this work is is by, you know,
really honoring the feelings and
emotions that we are taking through in it.
Well, we have a slight follow up to
that similar questions between Henness
who's in the audience and some of the
student questions from Claire and I'm
going to say this last name wrong Felci.
Have you received any backlash from
writing the book or have you ever
felt scared that your stories that
you were sharing would not make it
into the right audience and would
be distorted into something you
didn't mean for it to turn into?
How has writing this book changed
how you live your day to day life?
Uhm, so there's a couple of
things I would say first of all.
Virulent racist.
They're not reading a book like
that's the that's too many words,
and it's not because they're not intelligent.
I think that's a that's
a fallacy people have.
There are plenty of highly intelligent
people who are doing incredibly great
harm to populations of color right now.
Actively and very aware people just
don't want to waste their time.
And I don't want to spend hours and
hours doing something I don't like.
I have,
I have yet I think I've gotten
one negative review on so you
want to talk about race?
One person who was like let me
ruin my week by reading this thing
I already know I disagree with.
You know what I mean?
They just don't,
but I will say.
The attention anything that as a black
woman you do that provides you a platform.
That puts your words in spaces that
white people aren't expecting to see it.
But even men of color aren't
expecting to see it. Will bring hate.
And we'll bring backlash.
And that's really what I would say.
You need to be aware of.
People will sometimes like tweeted me I
hated your book like you didn't read it.
Yes, I did quote one thing
from it and there's stuff.
Yeah, you didn't read it.
You hate that I exist.
You hate that you see my face,
you hate that you came across a quote by me.
You hate that I'm on your NPR
station and you're not expecting
to hear me on your NPR station.
And that's really you know
where that comes from.
And so anything that we do that puts
us in a space that white supremacy
is determined that we shouldn't
be is going to have backlash.
And So what I remember when I'm
writing and doing this work.
Is that that can come for me
shopping at a grocery store?
People don't think I need to be in
driving through a neighborhood that
police think I don't need to be in right?
That will go away when I stop writing.
Yes, there can be a bigger target
on me at times.
There are practical considerations for
our safety that we have to take and
and it doesn't guarantee our safety at all.
Our family has been
directly targeted in really,
really terrifying ways over the years.
But I got into this work.
Because a teenager wasn't able to go
get Skittles without getting murdered,
right?
You know,
I I do this work because a black
woman can't be pulled over without
winding up dead in a jail cell, right?
These are the things.
These are the reasons why I do
this work and that doesn't go
away if I stop writing, you know,
at least I get to say it, you know at least.
I get to have this larger
conversation about it.
At least I get to feel like
I am part of the work.
To make things better,
and that's kind of what I keep
in mind when I'm doing it.
The next question,
I think is is in a more general sense,
this person is asking how urgent or
important activism is today in 2022,
but I I'd like to kind of twist it and ask
you how important is it and then how do you.
How do you think about how important it is
and then the safety of what you're saying?
Your family, how they you know
you guys are getting a, swatting,
swatting something like that? Yeah,
how do you like balance the two and how?
How would somebody who's
wanting to get into activism?
How could they be realistic about what
it means to be an activist today?
Yeah, there's a couple of things
one I would say is you.
It first of all, it's always important,
right? Every day, we're not.
Whether it's in the news or not,
we're still being impacted in real,
disastrous ways by white supremacy.
So the work is always important.
You must prioritize your
survival as a person of color,
recognizing that there are
different ways to kill someone.
And the most common way in which.
People of color. Are killed. Is.
By being robbed of their potential,
being robbed of their times of their
sense of safety, of their well-being.
It is vital when you do this work.
That you prioritize that,
and that means even prioritizing
what issues you take on.
And if you can't see a direct benefit.
To yourself or the other people
of color that you love.
Maybe that's not the work
you need to be doing.
Because you already have to survive it.
And where you can't ground,
you're working now.
It's going to just take from you and
and kind of leave you more hollow.
For my family,
my partner has to regularly remind me.
That anything I do in this work,
anything I do that puts a spotlight
on me even if I wasn't an activist?
If I if I became a.
Popular actor just being a
black woman taking up space
would bring threats to my door.
And it's. There's nothing I can do
to mitigate that if I want to exist
as a whole person in the world and
do the work I'm supposed to do.
But it also means that I have to build
extra time and for healing and safety.
I do take, you know,
whatever mitigations we can around
who gets to know where we live.
Who gets information about my children?
You know there are things I I used to
I used to share everything online and
and I've had to learn that I can't. But
I also want people to understand
a lot of what people do to try to
discourage people of color from
being public in their struggle
from pushing back against white
supremacy is by building a fear.
Of a backlash that discourages
they want that told to be too high.
I've gotten so many threats I
woke up to one this morning.
And most of that is not someone who's
actually out there trying to hurt me.
It's someone who wants me to feel
like the stakes are too high to
feel like it's too draining.
So insulate yourself from that
where you can recognize what's
happening that people are still
trying to rob you of your time.
Rob you of your productivity.
You're trying to distract you.
And then.
Create a space.
Where you can have safety from that.
I always recommend people who do this
work have a group of friends of color.
That aren't doing this exact same work.
Or are willing to leave that aside
and come together on a regular
basis prioritize coming together
to just have a space where you are
safe where you never have to worry
about something racist coming up.
But you could talk about your day
and know that people are going
to understand where you can joke
around and see a goofy movie.
You must prioritize that,
and when you start this work a
lot of times you will act as if.
Everything you take for yourself
anytime you take for yourself
is selfish and that's not true.
It's what keeps you going,
and so you must prioritize that.
Don't let anyone kind of get in the
way of that. Give up that meaning.
Give up that you know that March
before you give up.
That time you need to restore yourself,
because the people who don't take
that and I have met many of them.
Become nothing but the work and every
relationship in their life fails.
Their mental health fails and they
lose the connection to the community.
They need to stay true to the work,
so it's all vital.
Kind of touches on Allison.
Asked another question how do you take care
of your mental health when you face racism?
I mean, we all face it every single day.
I think it's really vital that we recognize
that every person of color is facing it
every single day and to a great degree.
And being aware is one of the
most important things right?
We shut ourselves down and I didn't
know that until I started writing.
How much of myself I had shut
down in order to survive,
I thought I was building survival
by not feeling it right?
Because we are consistently
disempowered and consistently told
that there's only so much we can do.
So therefore bringing it up actually
feeling it, sitting with it and saying.
Did that was that racist, you know,
is a thing that won't help us.
When I started writing about this,
I had to be willing to sit with it.
And Oh my God, I became an ocean.
I was crying constantly and
I thought it was harming me.
But what I realized.
'cause I was also crying with joy more often,
like I went from being someone who
never cries to someone who absolutely
cries who is absolutely devastated when
a black person is killed by the state.
You know, when these horrible things happen,
but also liberation,
you can't look at a black baby
giggling without crying, right?
I can't connect with my friends
without crying. Because.
When we shut ourselves off to the pain,
we also shut ourselves off to joy.
And creating a safe space to
feel that pain will allow us.
To live fully, enjoy as it comes
because we let go of the fear.
That losing that person losing
that connection would kill us.
We sat with it.
We realized that we are living in it and
we are surviving in it as hard as it is,
and therefore we can be open
to the joy of it and,
and that has been one of the
most important things for me.
And then I would say,
if you're,
it's always really vital to have an
activity that's just for you that
requires a lot of your concentration
that has nothing to do. With racism.
People who follow me online
know I love makeup.
And murder mysteries.
And I was like having weird dreams last
the other night about nail Polish and
murder I kept looking at nail polishing,
encountering murders,
and I woke up like this is weird
and my partner is like, well,
if you would stop listening to murder
mysteries while you do your nails,
maybe this wouldn't happen,
right?
But that's the space I have and
it's the thing I have that is so
different from the work I do that
gives me space to just decompress
and breathe and find what that thing
is for you and make it a priority.
And part of your daily routine.
And that can really help.
Therapy is important.
Therapy can also be really hard to find.
If you are a person of
color experiencing racism,
especially in a white area.
So still, if you can't find that,
find spaces, find things
written by people of color.
Two people of color about healing.
Have people to talk to and have
people to share joy with and.
Really make that a priority.
You know, find joy and make joy a
priority in your life where you can.
I'm also a huge fan of murder mysteries,
so is there any podcasts or shows
that you could recommend?
I I love the British murder
mysteries because they're always
just I'm obsessed with them and so
I actually rewatched Foyle's War,
which is such an obscure British murder
mystery 'cause it's just watch that,
yeah, it's set in World War Two and
it was very cathartic to me in a way
because we're in this horrible pandemic.
So first of all, like watching all
this weird white on white violence,
which is mostly what it is,
and you're like, this is strange.
You know I'm not killing anyone
over an inheritance.
You know, that's not my life.
But watching this and then
also recognizing like.
As a society we have gone
through horrific times,
all encompassing horrific
times like we are now.
And people still were out there
trying to murk each other.
Like I don't know.
I found that kind of country.
I like that perspective that
historical perspective helped.
But yeah,
like there is one of my favorites.
Foyle's were Miss Fisher's murder
mysteries was one of my favorites
as well and that's actually one of
the few hours able to get my partner
into because he does not love them
with the same passion I do and I am
rereading the inspector Gamache books
which are Canadian murder mysteries,
which are fantastically written.
If you can get past the fact that
the author is terrified of becoming
fat and it shows up anytime there's
a fat character in the books.
But yeah, that's yeah they helped me a lot.
I can't, you know,
they're just so absurd and weird.
The fantastic ways in which.
You know, we imagined people murdered.
You know like that like whiteness as
a whole generally imagines people
murdering each other other than the
horrible and really unimaginative
ways that you know they actually do
every day is is quite interesting.
And Luther of course I loved, right.
Luther is not right when around
these really bizarre,
overly dramatic murders.
Yeah,
you know,
it's it's fantasy that you kind of
hang out in for awhile and you can't
think of anything else while you're.
Watching those and so that's
definitely a decompression time for me.
It's just elbow is always a favorite, yes?
So tortured, so tortured.
No, I love it.
Father Brown is another good one.
If you ever get a chance.
OK,
I you know,
I haven't really gotten into that
one yet, so maybe I'll be the next one.
It's very wholesome,
it ends and you know, and then it,
it's just it's it's. It's cute.
OK perfect so we have another question.
If one was new to this journey but have
has been teaching for 20 plus years,
where would you say is a good place to start?
As other question,
I follow up to that.
When you get these type of questions,
do you feel excited that this person
is making a turn in their life or like
how do you feel about these types of
questions where it's like I've been
doing XYZ for this many years and now I'm.
I wanna learn more I wanna do more
where do I start like how do those
types of questions impact you?
I'm never excited, but I'll take it.
You know what I mean?
Like I think that's so much of the work I do.
I wrote a beginner 101 to
have a talk about an issue.
I hope people will act on right.
So I will say like when the
book started when the book hit
number one in the New York Times
bestseller list after George Floyd
and Brianna Taylor were murdered.
I was gutted 'cause I was
like really now like what?
Please buy some Angela Davis you
know please show up at these spaces
and tear them down and you know
learn how to talk about it later.
Maybe you know I was frustrated and
angry that this thing I had written
years ago that I had hoped people
would had already started the work
along with something that people
decided to come to at a moment when
action was needed more than anything.
But that being said.
That's where people are, right?
So you know what am I gonna do?
I can't Fast forward people pass that.
Come to the work where you can,
you know, come to the work.
Today is better than tomorrow, right?
So I'm not going to hand out cookies for it.
But I recognize that it's necessary,
and I recognize that you saying
you're doing it now after 20 years.
10 years is better than saying
that 10 years from now you know.
So that's kind of where I stand on that.
But I'd say it's if you are getting into
this and you've been out there and you've
been teaching for over a decade and you're
just now starting to tackle this work,
recognize that it means that you've
been doing harm and that you have no
right to expect people to be grateful.
For you coming to that work now.
But first I would say it's important
to listen to what any faculty of color
on your campus have been saying.
OK, nobody suffers in silence.
Nobody suffers in silence,
So what needs to happen in your campus?
What needs to happen in your classrooms?
Is something that people
have been communicating,
and whether you've heard it or
not depends on whether you've
been ready to hear it or not.
It doesn't mean it hasn't been said.
So first look at that and then look at
what's being said in other campuses.
Look at the work the published work
of teachers and Faculty of color.
That they have been compensated for,
you know work.
They put a lot of effort into
and see what needs to happen.
You know,
look at what student groups of color
around the country have been consistently
asking to see on their campuses
and see how you could support that.
And then also just look at,
you know,
at what your own students are
saying they need.
Ask how you can be of assistance.
Look at your own personal power
and start doing work towards
that and then really you know,
start investigating and reading some
of the you know many sources out
there on you know pedagogy and the
ways in which we continue to have.
To in in insert racism into the ways in
which we teach and learn and challenge that.
And I would also say it's really
vital when you start doing this
work and you're looking at it,
especially if you're an educator.
To start to 1st question,
your definition of success in this
a lot of times educators their
definition of success to them is
having students of color move through
this system as well as white students
do without questioning whether
what's being taught and you know,
learned in these institutions
is beneficial or not, right?
So question the definitions of success.
Look at alternative education spaces
that have been created by people
of color because that's often where
you'll find their own definitions of
success and see where you can shift
and see where your definition of success.
Even for people of color,
is steeped in white supremacy before
you start making adjustments,
because if you're adjusting to.
Getting more students of color
in a class still teaches white
supremacy to getting more students
to get a raise in an institution
that is steeped in white supremacy.
To getting more students to suffer through.
A white supremacist learning experience?
Then all of your efforts are going to
do is keep sending white supremacy and
increasing the harm done to populations
of color in your missed so you know.
Look at that and and set to goals that
have been stated by people of color.
This is a follow-up question
and not a reflection.
I just wanna get very clear,
not a reflection on the question
that was just answered,
but I've already seen two questions that
I personally will not be asking you and.
I just was wondering.
For you, are there certain questions that.
You would like to retire,
or certain questions that you were
just like I. Why would you ask this?
I think when people see you know people
like you who are out here trying
to teach and they kind of feel like
anything and everything is valid.
But where do you kind of draw the
line and say this is inappropriate
and I will not be addressing this.
Yeah all I do this all the time
and so that's for work like.
Personally,
I always tell even when when when we
start getting ready to do these talks now.
Anything you want to answer,
I said well.
There are things people may not want
me to answer because I do think every
question is a learning experience when
you're willing to be upfront about
what you're going to take on or not.
And there are plenty of times I remember
doing a radio interview in the host saying,
you know, every time I ask you
a question you don't like.
You don't answer it,
you just point out why that's a bad question.
I said yeah,
and you're learning right?
So that's that's my personal approach to it,
but I do think there's real harm them
in the ways in which we shift and try
to refocus these conversations in a
way that oftentimes serves white supremacy.
Questions that I'm tired of questions that
I feel like we should be done with our.
Are we better off now than we were?
Is racism still a problem?
Yes yes yes. Why are you not listening
to everyone around you?
Who's saying it is?
You know like that's to me like that's silly.
How do I?
Not hurt white people feelings
when we have these conversations.
I'm so tired of that there's such a
pessimism in that question that I
think people aren't willing to address.
Do we really think?
That white people are incapable of learning.
Without falling apart incapable
of growth and change,
incapable of hearing about the
existence of racism and harm.
I mean, we're living it.
You know, and and there's a pessimism in
that that people aren't willing to address.
And so I just don't deal with it.
I'm very familiar with wait
and see how it operates.
I must have a white mother I I'm aware
of the growth that individual white
people are capable of and the amount
of discomfort they're capable of
sitting in in order to enable that growth.
And so these questions that
constantly are steeped in preserving
comfort and hand holding.
And you know,
baby stepping white people through progress.
On an issue that's literally
killing people of color is not
something I have patients for,
and so when I'm asked those questions,
I take them.
And it becomes a learning experience.
But why we shouldn't do this?
But I also am aware as to why those
questions are asked and how often
that plays out in Group dynamics
where suddenly the whole conversation
is shifted away from real concrete
issues impacting populations of color
and back to centering whiteness
in a way that's really harmful.
OK, thank you. I have a question
from one of the students Kateri Higa.
I have only read the first half of your book,
but you often mention ableism.
I'm curious how far you would take
that idea of equal opportunity in the
workforce for people with disabilities.
Can you clarify with an example of
this issue and possibly possible
solutions you would consider feasible?
At what point does it become?
Does it begin to infringe upon a private
companies rights to hire the type of
person with the specific qualifications
that they desire to have work for them?
Here's what I would say.
A lot of times.
Ableism allows people to say.
That accommodation is too much work.
It allows people to build entire
systems that were never built
to serve or enable people,
disabled people to function within them.
And say then,
that because they can't function,
they don't belong in this space.
So many things have been done to
women to people of color, right?
We build spaces that are unsafe for
people that we don't care about that
we never thought we had to consider.
And then when they can't
function well in those spaces,
we say see they aren't supposed to be there.
I would say we must address first and
foremost the ways in which workplaces have
been built to exclude disabled people,
and recognize that that is wrong,
and if you have a business,
you have a responsibility to rectify that,
and so I would say you start
with wondering where the line is.
Talk to disabled people.
The truth is,
is that disabled people everyday are
building creative work arounds that
they shouldn't have to to be able to
function in a world openly hostile to them.
They're building businesses.
They're programming computers.
They're doing all of these things,
not only to meet needs of
the general population,
but especially to meet their own needs,
right?
If you have a company that doesn't feel like.
Creating a space where you can work.
Chances are they're also not
creating a space that serves you.
If you're a customer right,
and so that means that disabled people are
not only finding places to do the work,
that's their passion.
They're also finding ways to help their
own community fill these gaps that
the abled community wants to ignore.
So if.
Disabled people are able to build
a work around with the limited
resources available often to them
you have no excuses employee.
And it's just simply that you decided
that population wasn't worth it.
And I do think we need to address it ableism.
Is. Serious.
No less serious than any other
system of oppression.
Disabled people are the largest
oppressed population in this country.
You will,
if you are lucky one day become disabled.
It is waiting for all of us,
no matter how sturdy you think you are.
And we're ableism interacts with racism,
as it often does.
The impacts are catastrophic.
And so it is vital that we address
it that we stop acting like a bosom.
Is the separate thing that we can
ignore your that you can decide to
take on out of the goodness of your
heart and not something that you owe.
An equally valuable segment of society.
As someone who operates in a capitalist
system that depends on society that
makes money from society that whose
children were educated in schools,
that disabled taxpayers helped pay for you.
Oh, that work and.
It is frustrating.
When I see people try to
preemptively put limits on it,
especially when when we still
have laws that allow businesses
to pay disabled workers who
are doing the same work,
less money below minimum wage for
their work that are able to add
things like how much you can lift
in an office job and is a way of
keeping disabled people out of
these species that aren't building
accessible workplaces that aren't
considering in their medical leave
the needs of disabled people.
In their insurance coverage needs
to disabled people all because
they want to save money and they've
deemed that population fund worthy.
And the truth is, is that.
Disability. Comes for all of us.
Disabled people. Are vast and varied.
In talent and potential.
And.
Have every right to expect to be
able to participate in society
and to have the systems that we
expect to be built for us who are
able to be built for them as well.
It's really important.
Another student question we have is
how do you think talking about race and
discrimination will change as technology
and communities grow or advance.
And I would add in section
about ableism as well.
In that yeah, I mean access is
important and I would say as a writer
I don't think my career would exist
if it weren't for social media.
Because it broke down a lot of the
traditional barriers that would
that keep black women out, right?
You know, ever weren't looking to publish me.
I didn't have the bona fides
they wanted to see.
I had to build my audience on
social media 1st and then wait
until they saw the value in that.
And I would say that for a lot of
marginalized populations that is the
case where it can open up avenues for that.
But there is a risk we must address the fact.
That most of our tech companies
and social media companies were
built in the image of white men.
There were people who had the
early access and the funding.
To create these spaces and their
definition of freedom in the
Internet was a space that allowed
them to operate with impunity.
And that means that even within
these spaces we are seeing and
can be seen as threats.
I don't know anyone who does work
similar to who hasn't been kicked
off of social media platforms.
I have in ways that made news
headlines multiple times.
I don't know anyone who hasn't faced
regular threats doing this work.
Who is the man inundated with threats
on social media and tech platforms?
I I worked in tech for over a decade.
I don't think I ever worked in
a space that was more sexist
and racist than that space.
Chat.
And and and that refused to
see it to such a degree,
and so that we must be aware of that.
There is a lot of potential and at
the same time there are active forces
seeking to push us out of these places.
We must be.
As fierce in advocating for safety
and inclusion in text spaces as we
are in what we deem the real world,
because it matters,
and it is increasingly the real world.
And this means access as well.
So when we're talking about
race and disability,
access is vital and there's a huge
access gap when it comes to technology.
Who has Internet access, who doesn't,
who can benefit from pictures
shared online and who cannot write?
Who has,
you know the equipment necessary
and who doesn't?
All of those things are vital.
We can't just say it exists without
building accessibility into it.
For all marginalized communities.
This one's kind of a long question, so.
I've seen a lot of local organizations
implement a board of peers to
analyze and promote equality and
diversity within the organization.
However, I know that a lot of major
corporations continue to have a board of
directors who are predominantly white men.
What do you think we can do
as a nation to change this?
Or should we have legislation be implemented
nationwide to require a more diverse
board of directors to include Blacks,
Asians, women, LGBTQ, etc?
I feel like opportunities
for people to advance.
In powerful positions that they deserve are
often overlooked because of white privilege.
Yeah, so there's a couple
of things I would say one.
Absolutely there are
systemic approaches to take,
like California has taken as far as
looking at the way boards are made up
and demanding equity within boards.
That is vital and boards are so
painfully white and male and that
does impact how a lot of very,
very important decisions are
made within organizations.
I would say,
though,
that it's also vital when we do this
work that we that we don't treat
the people of color who come towards as.
Tokens.
And that we also make sure that they are
actually truly representing the community.
That we're hoping to serve
with this board diversity.
Finding a black CEO.
Who?
Has immense.
Wealth privilege.
And has no connection to the struggling
black employee base at a company.
Is not going to serve.
The black community.
The way in which a lot of times
companies like to pretend it will.
And I've seen board members
of color who were hand-picked,
because that's who the white Board
members feel very comfortable with.
Those are the people who
emulate their definition of
success to their closest degree,
and that doesn't bring us much closer at all.
To what we need.
Any board?
And and this is one of the dangers
of sports is that they get to be
actively disconnected.
From employees and community
impacted by those companies.
And they get to be disconnected
from those most impacted by
the decisions they're making.
Very rarely do I encounter board
members who actually know what happens
in the warehouses of the companies
they're on the boards for whoever
talked to anyone who works in them,
who has any Direct Line to them, right?
They're talking to VP's.
And so I would say it's important to
look at that from a racial standpoint.
It's also a really,
really important that we start looking
at why is it only people who've
only been disconnected who've only
had a place of exploitative power.
In capitalist systems,
the ones that we are putting in
these rooms to make decisions,
there's no amount of racial
diversity that can make up for,
for that lack of connection and lack of
direct experience and communication.
Between the communities most impacted
by the decisions that businesses make.
So I just want to say we have about 20
minutes left and I just realized I've
been slipping away and I haven't given
you a chance to like, take a breather
and get some water if you need it.
But is there a certain amount of time you
wanted to wrap up, or how many questions?
We have plenty of questions,
so how many would you say you are
comfortable taking? Uhm I am.
Well, I have to go pick my son
up from school in a little while
so so I could take a couple over.
I think we were actually supposed
to be done at 2,
so I think we were actually quite over.
But oh, I'm so sorry.
I thought we were done OK.
But will take take two more
questions and then we'll be done OK.
OK, let's look up my place of appointment.
Has affinity groups we're discussing
starting an anti racist white affinity group,
but we are not sure what it looks like.
What does that look like to you
and how would it work?
OK, these groups can be really tricky.
I think they can be really important
because there does need to be spaces
where white people come together to
get ready to do the work that doesn't
continuously drain people of color.
You need to have compensated
advisers of color for this work.
You can't just do it in a vacuum.
There's no amount of reading you can do.
It's going to stop you from retreating
into your privilege when things get
uncomfortable or even just unconsciously
like failing to address important issues.
So these groups to me look like spaces
where people can come to process
and ask questions and find resources
without draining people of color.
It does look like they have some
supervision or advisement from
people of color who are compensated
for that work with full consent.
And respect and and they have to be
action oriented. It can't just be.
This is our reading group and we're
going to talk about our feelings
as we go through this.
It has to have real goals, you know,
and you have to set them and work
towards them, and otherwise it's just.
Like intellectual ************ you
know that's really all of that.
It is and it's really vital that
you are looking at this and saying,
OK, we're going to do that work.
And so where I think this can be
really important is when you can
openly and honestly talk about in a
comfortable room full of white people.
The truth about how you're navigating
these spaces and participating
in it when someone is willing to
say you know what you know.
What you're right,
I do.
I read this and I do get friend when
this happens and it sucks and I see this
in myself and I see it in my peers.
What are we going to do right?
And a lot of times I do feel like.
White people can be more comfortable
to say that.
In a room that's just white people.
But if the action doesn't
come all you're doing,
then is creating a space where you're saying,
Oh yeah, it's OK.
We all do that instead of it's not
OK and so also I would say always
keep in mind these two truths.
It happens all the time and it's not OK,
right?
We've been programmed,
especially white people to participate
in white supremacy all the time,
which means every single day you are
enacting white supremacist ideas and actions.
Happens all the time and it's not
OK because the harm Israel and so
you are accountable and so you
have to hold that and say you know
you didn't invent racism.
You're not the worst person in the world,
but you are accountable for
the harm you've done it.
You have to do something about it,
and so groups that say focused on that
that keep that truth that let people
know we are going to talk about this.
No ones coming in here acting
like they've got it
all down like they've never done anything
racist like they've never crossed harm.
But we're also going to hold the
truth that what we talk about
here comes within accountability.
It comes with a requirement
for action and repair.
That we're then going to figure
out and do is where those groups
can be the most successful.
The last question is just,
but I'm so sorry to everyone who we didn't
get a chance to address your questions.
Is there any last thoughts that
you would like to give out to the
campus Green River campus community?
I would say that it is really
vital that we can that we remember.
That students and faculty of color deserve
not only to survive, but to thrive.
They deserve the full collegiate experience.
This means that students deserve
to party to experiment to mess up.
To have adventures to challenge authority.
They get to try on new identities, new goals.
They deserve to feel safe.
They deserve to make lifelong friendships.
They deserve all of that.
Faculty. Deserves to make honest.
Meaningful connections with students.
They deserve the full respect of their peers.
They deserve to be appreciated for
all that they bring to a school,
including their lived experience,
including their special connections
they may have with students of color.
They deserve a robust and healthy home life.
They deserve career advancements.
They deserve publication.
They deserve everything promised.
You know they deserve the same
promises that many white faculty are
offered or are made available to them.
It is not enough to just look at the
ways in which harm is being done is.
Also we must also look and say
it's an institution.
That people of color in these spaces
deserve the ability to fries.
And that that should be the end goal.
You don't just stop when
this specific harm is done.
It's not enough to say I got through it.
If students of color are coming
through your experience saying
they survived it instead of it,
with some of the most enriching
and important years of their lives,
you have failed even if no one
says anything racist to them,
even if they are made to feel unsafe,
you have failed because you didn't
see them as whole people capable.
You know, deserving of a whole experience.
Alright, thank you so much.
You've learned a lot here today.
Your highlight game was on
point and so was this talk,
so I really appreciate you.
Thank you for coming onto our campus
and teaching us to think or two.
And sorry for going overtime.
I seriously apologize.
It was a very robust conversation.
Thank you so much and thank
you to everybody who who came.
We had 2 / 200 people here.
Wonderful, yeah.
Again, I know a couple people asked
media services will have this recording
available in the next week or two,
and I'm sure Jody will send out an
email with that when it's available.
Yeah, I'll send it to everybody
who attended and the whole campus
interpres enter if you'd like it.
And I think I'll also
send you the chat drama.
There's just so much so much appreciation
for what you had to say in there.
So in case you'd like to look at it,
great, thank you.
Yeah, I believe there's
a lot of people who are.
Asking great questions in here
too that we did have time too and
I know someone was asking about
a link to artist Relief Fund.
We actually stopped directly
donating through that,
but you can donate directly to
Langston just in general that
that is the group that facilitated
like sent the checks and they are
continuing their efforts to make
sure that black artists in Seattle
can continue to perform and donating
directly to them is is absolutely,
if you're going to donate in the
spirit of the Artist Relief Fund,
that's the way I would go.
I think Georgina just put that link
in the chat. The Langston seattle.org.
OK, thank you so much.
I don't want to be late for
your son. Thanks everybody.
OK, take care bye bye.