Welcome everybody, thank you so much for coming today to our
third one book presentation of the year. My name is Jody Siegel
and I lead our Onebook effort on
Green River. At Green River College and yeah, thank you all
so much for coming out today. Let me. I'd like to just
introduce the Onebook program a little bit and some of the
events we have planned for the rest of the quarter. And winter
quarter and then I'll briefly introduce our two panelists
today and then turn it over to them. One quick word is that.
If you have questions about, please use the chat. If you
like, you can talk to each other and just kind of make comments,
but if you actually have questions for the panelists we
ask you to either type them into the Q&A feature which you can
see on your screen, or you can also raise your hand if you
like. If you want to ask it live and then we can call on you and
then they'll be taking questions after the main part of the
presentation. So our one book program, the idea with the one
book program is that it brings together community in
conversation around a book or in our case two books that deal
with a particular issue and what we're looking at this entire
year in some depth is the US criminal justice system and
inequity injustice in the criminal justice system. Using
two books to talk about this issue. The first is Just Mercy
by Bryan Stevenson, but I'm sure many people are very familiar
with. And then the second book is called Becoming Ms. Burton:
From Prison to Recovery to Leading the Fight for
Incarcerated Women. That's written by Susan Burton with
Carrie Lynn. And let me just give you a little bit of
information. So my first question is my first just point.
I want to make is why are we talking about this now and
there's so many reasons why now?
Um? So many reasons right now I've, but from this particular
list of the first being that the US has the world's highest
incarceration rate, we have 2.3 million Americans in prison.
Today. That's from the Equal Justice initiative. Black people
in the United States are three
times. More likely than white people to be killed by police
and only 1.3 times more likely than white people to be. Oh and
1.3 times more.
Likely than white people to be unarmed. One in every 10 black
men in his 30s is in prison or in jail in any given day in the
United States. Black man is 6 times more likely to be
incarcerated in the US than a
white man. So you can see there's tremendous racism in the
system. 70% of American prisoners are nonwhite. the
average American has one in 20 chance of being imprisoned at
some point in his life, but that means much higher for Latino
men. One in six chance. An African American man, again more
than one in three, then for white men. American Indian youth
are three times as likely as white youth to be held in
juvenile detention facility. Some 4500 children are housed in
adult jails and prisons, and.
Any given day in the US.
So that number is going down. Women are the fastest growing
population of incarcerated people in the United States. So
many more men than women are in prison. The Great the growth
rate is at a steeper incline for women than it is for men.
It's been twice as high as that of men since 1980, and there are
currently 1.3 million women under supervision of the
criminal justice system.
And then jobs matter to keep people out of prison when
they're released. So of 262 thousand offenders that were
released from federal prison. And these are this is an old
figure. 50% of those who couldn't secure a job during
their supervised release time. They committed a new crime or
violated terms of the release and was sent back to prison. But
93% of people who were able to secure job during their release
period were successfully able to reintegrate back into
communities and not return to
prison. There's so many more statistics we really are looking
at a situation that's incredibly injust and self perpetuating.
That keeps people in poverty.
And hits people inequitably along racial lines, so a brief
word about the authors of our two books. Brian Stevenson
founded the Equal Justice Initiative, which is committed
to ending mass incarceration. And excessive punishment in the US.
It's working on all kinds of initiatives, so you can go to
their website and look at some of the work that they're doing.
And then Susan Burton. She founded a new way of Life
Reentry project when she was released from prison after 20
years of cycling in and out of
prison. After her son was killed and she was suffering from
tremendous trauma and grief,
and. Addiction.
And so a new way of life helps women who come out of prison
actually get some traction and support in creating new lives
for themselves. So.
Nuts and bolts of this we have free books for students. If your
current university student and you're not reading the book in
class, reach out to us at Holman Library and you can. We
can send you a free book.
And then we also have books available for faculty and staff
to check out if you'd like to be in a reading club to read one of
the books together, please let us know. We have E books if you
want to read it online. You can also watch Just Mercy and just
look it up in our library catalog. We have that for the
year. I'm and then we also have a research and resource guide to
support research on this topic and just a quick final word here
after this week next Wednesday afternoon from 1:00 to 3:00 PM.
We're really fortunate to be
hosting Jeremiah Bourgeois. As part of our diversity
educational series on campus.
I hope you can attend that. Jeremiah Bourgeois was
incarcerated at 14 years of old 14 years of age.
And was given a life sentence that was overturned when laws were
challenged and changed around given life sentence is to youth
and he finally earned his way out of prison. He is currently a
law student at Gonzaga and we're really excited to welcome him
next Wednesday afternoon and then finally our last Brown bag
lunch talk of the quarter will be imagining a prison to college
pipeline so you can see how it's a plan that juvenile to prison
pipeline. That's going to be a conversation between Marc
Barrington one of our English
faculty members. And former University behind bars
instructor and a conversation with Faps co-founder Shonda Tate
and Tonya Wilson. So I hope you can join us in a few weeks for
that one. So with that.
Oh in winter quarter. Please join us for the Innocence
Project and then also our one book. Author Susan Burton will
be joining us for a couple days on campus and during the keynote
address on February 24th. So with that please join me in
welcoming Jashon Banks, criminal justice faculty member
at Green River College. I'm going to stop my share here so
you don't have to look at all my things. Thank you.
And then also our guests James Curtis, who is a local defense
attorney and was originally prosecuting attorney, came up
through Community College system. But I will let you
introduce yourselves and welcome. Thank you so much for
joining us today.
-Good afternoon everyone. My name is Jason Banks Senior Criminal
justice faculty at Green River College made my second year tenure
and I'm really blessed and happy to be here and be a part
of this conversation.
-And my name is James Curtis and I am the owner and criminal
defense attorney for the Curtis firm. We are located in Tukwila,
WA and serve Western Washington.
Before becoming a criminal defense attorney, I'm always
proud to say that I am a Community College graduate and
without our Community College system, I wouldn't be sitting
here today. I've also worked in the criminal justice field for
about 14 years. I served as a deputy prosecutor in Pierce
County work, serving in the narcotics unit. The gang unit,
also violent crimes, and I also worked 3 1/2 years and the
juvenile system. And I'm just excited to be here today and to
share some of my experiences and some of my thoughts in our
criminal justice system and in particularly some of the in-
equities and how we should go about dealing with those.
-Awesome, so appreciate that James and thank you for being
here on this topic as I think your expertise would be
phenomenal for us to for you to share to our population. So I'm
just going to sharing my screen here. I got a nice little
PowerPoint and play pretty much like nuts and bolts of.
This entire project, this entire issue that's going on right now
in our in our country so.
I called the school to prison pipeline and again, James.
Whenever you want to chime in,
please do. But I'ma start going forward here.
So. School to prison pipeline. So this is the school to prison.
Pipeline refers to policies and practices that push children,
especially minorities, out of school and into the juvenile and
criminal justice system. So this is just the overall definition
of what this issue is.
Anything you gotta say on that Jay at all?
-What what I would say is that the school to prison pipeline
does refer to the inequities in our criminal justice system that
disproportionately affect youth of color and, and we're talking
about juveniles and I like to refer to him as children because
my time is a defense attorney and prosecutor. When I've had
chance to interact with these kids and these children.
They're just like my children. I have a 15 year old at home and I
have a 10 year old at home and both of my children are of age
to be. Legally, charge in juvenile court with a with a
criminal offense. So I like to refer to him as children because
it helps us kind of put their experience and their state in
their lives in perspective.
-Awesome the nest and again I agree with that
wholeheartedly so.
The next slide again I want you want everyone to get
comfortable for a quick minute. This is a really great video
kind of explain everything. So now you get that visual look of
what it looks like. Some of the issues that has happened and
somebody that data and demographics to represent this
issue.
-There's this phrase that you might hear in the news sometimes
the school to prison pipeline. It's shorthand for how schools
are funneling students, especially black students, into
the criminal justice system. It started in the 90s when schools
responded to fears about crime with zero tolerance policies,
which mandated suspensions and expulsions for certain
violations. They also crackdown on little things like talking
back or uniform violations. The hope was that it would keep
bigger problems from bubbling up, but as a result out of
school suspensions have doubled since the 1970s.
And they keep increasing even though juvenile crime rates have
now been dropping for years. Around the same time, the number
of police officers stationed full time inside schools has
increased by a third between 1997 and 2007. Ostensibly, they
were there to prevent mass school shootings like the one at
Columbine, but they end up being away for schools to basically
outsource discipline to the police. Schools with officers
have five times as many arrests for disorderly conduct as
schools without them.
Sometimes the results are shocking, but the less visible
effect is that schools are feeding the racial disparities
in the criminal justice system. Consider the fact that schools
are more likely to have an officer on their campus if the
student population is more than
50% black. You might assume that that's because there's more
crime at these schools, but although students at police
schools are more likely to be arrested, they're not actually
more likely to be charged in court for weapons, drugs,
alcohol, or assault, at least according to one study. During
the 2010 2011 school year, one in six public school students in
the US were black, but they accounted for one and three
arrests at school. Same goes for other forms of school
discipline. Black students are suspended or expelled three
times more frequently than white
students. It actually begins in preschool. 18% of preschoolers
are black, but if all preschoolers suspended more than
once, 48% are black.
Studies show that differences in behavior can't fully account for
these disparities. Black students and white students are
sent to the Principals Office at similar rates, but black
students are more likely to end up with a serious punishment.
One study found that white students are more likely to be
suspended for provable offenses like smoking or vandalism. Black
students are more likely to be suspended for subjective
offenses like talking back or insubordination. Students who
are suspended in school are more likely to later drop out or get
arrested, so the federal
government is. Asking schools to make suspension and expulsion
the absolute last resort in Oakland, CA public schools are
trying something called restorative justice or both
parties in a conflict talk it out with the counselor instead
of relying on punishment.
The results are pretty encouraging. In the last 10
years, chronic absenteeism is down and graduation rates are up
in the schools that have tried it. Other cities and districts
are also trying new policies. They're hoping that if their
students end up in the criminal justice system, at least it
won't be because the schools push them there.
-Awesome
awesome. James, anything you want it.
Add to that video.
-Well, I think I like the video and I think it it it.
Identifies one aspect of it, and that's the law enforcement law
enforcement being present at the school. What I would what I
would say has even a greater impact, is what happens in the
courtroom. And that's something that we lose. I think that you
that video is missing when he's young. When students are arrested.
There are a lot of decisions that are made and those
decisions that are made in the courtroom, I think affect the
decisions of the teachers, the principles, and law enforcement.
So if you have a prosecutors office, a Probation Department
that has in place alternative programming is to provide some
of these youth with service is to engage their families counselors.
So whether it's a drug treatment, if you have those in
place and their staff you have diversion programs then you can
avoid it. But when these young people are charged and law
enforcement knows that the teachers and principals know
that, then there's more.
Stronger likelihood that if you have a student ask continuously
disruptive then the school and the police officer or the
resource officer they're going to lean on the court. The
juvenile court system to take over and to take that student
off their hands. So I think while the video does show some
alarming images, those aren't the most alarming images to me.
What happens in the courtroom; That's what's missing, and
that's where the injustice.
Really takes place.
-I agree with you. So quick question, James so.
So to add some clarity to our audience. Is this more likely
to happen in a in public schools or in private schools?
-Well, I you know, I don't think it's so much to school. I think
it's the I think it's the law enforcement. What is the
environment? What is the? How engaged is the community in the
schools with providing rehabilitative services? Pro
social activities for youth. So if you look at the community and
you see you know, do we have a Boys and Girls Club? Is there a
Community Center that provides opportunities for youth?
Are there nonprofits who are connected to the schools to
provide additional resources? Do they have counseling services in
place now? We would think that a private school is more likely to
have those in place. Probably more likely to have parents who
have resources for their children, so maybe less likely.
But one thing I will say is from and this is what I've seen in
private schools. They can kick you out, so if you have a a
young person, a child.
In class and they're acting out. Maybe there is a need for
counseling. Maybe there is a substance abuse issue. Maybe
there's violence in the home. Well, if the private school
doesn't want to deal with it and it student is being disruptive,
they can kick the student out. Public school has to deal with
it, so they are more likely to deal with the student. Try to
redirect the student, and in the end if they are unable to, or if
the situation escalates, they're more likely to call the police
because they have to by law.
Serve provide services to the child.
-I really appreciate that. That is great info. Glad
to provide that clarity so this guy for work so.
Uh, so here's an image and I'll read it to you. Folks are
allowed to bring up may not see it say the school to prison
pipeline describes an alarming trend and where public,
elementary, middle and high schools are pushing youth out of
classrooms and into the juvenile criminal justice systems. I just
get it just kind of showing the depiction again, this funnel
method. And again, this is a serious issue that's happening
not just here in Washington state, but all across the
country and again.
Standing by James in the courtroom, I have seen some some
horrific things. In some, you know, children, you know crying
their tears out or just something that you know could have been
going on internally. Again, as James said, he could be. It
could be some disruptive behavior coming from what's
happening at home. His mom and dad actually nurturing and
loving and asking questions or or or they deciding to use other
methods to try to make this child listen and do what they
deem appropriate so.
Anything James on this slide you want to add into?
Again, I know it's short but just a quick Demo- Just a quick
picture. -I want to go back to the point that I made earlier is
that it's so easy, just like the video we saw to show images of a
young black child being snatched by a police officer that makes
people upset when you see an image on TV of a law enforcement
officer using violence against an unarmed person, and those
individuals tend to be men of color who are killed. But there
are other people and white people and women that are also
assaulted by officers, but.
What what I think is always missing is that and what you
don't get to see and you don't see a camera inside the
courtroom. So when you think about this school to prison
pipeline when you think about it, usually there has to be a
component with family because I think family makes a big
difference. And what? And the reason I say family is.
For for those who don't know, it's very difficult actually.
For a a child who is under the age of 18 to be charged with a
crime, unless it's a serious violent crime. So let's say for
instance, a child. Let's let's say my son, he goes to school
and he punches someone in the face. As long as there's no
breaks in this.
It's the charges misdemeanor. Then they automatically get a
chance for diversion if he goes back to school and does it again
he gets a chance at the diversion. He doesn't even go into court
that the case is sent by the
prosecutor to diversion. Now we're family plays a role is
that in order to to have your case diverted, there are going
to be some things you need to do. You need to meet with the
probation officer. You may need to go to anger management
program. So because my kid, my son is in a two parent
household, both his parents are lawyers. We know the system.
He would immediately be taken to his counselor. He would be taken
to all his meetings to meet with their probation officer, well
when you don't have family
involved. That child who was sent to the diversion for an
assault in the fourth degree. If the family is not there, there's
no resources at home and they don't complete the requirements
of the diversion program. That case gets forwarded back to the
juvenile courts and their they're formally charged. They are
sometimes arrested most of times their summons is to come into court.
Now have a child, doesn't have family support. They're not
going to respond to a summons. A mailing that tells you you're
going to be arraigned, so they'll likely be picked up.
In arrested at school, in placed in custody and and, and so when
you think about the school to prison pipeline, there's also a
family component where if you don't have sufficient.
Sufficient support at home, competent guardians or parents
who are going to help you. Then it can lead to. I think it aids
students in going through this pipeline because the lack of
support or if you do have support makes a big difference.
-Awesome, that's great, yes, and again to kind of go further.
Along with that James, I'm going to the next slide because now we
ask him who is being funneled through the pipeline. As you can
see we've got black or Hispanic or Latin or Asian or biracial
students are English language learners. We have physical,
physically or developmentally disabled learning disabled or
LBGTQ plus community our undocumented youth and even
homeless and foster foster care
children. So, my question to you James is again with your 3 1/2
years sitting in a courtroom. I'm pretty sure you know
probably seen all variations of this list here, but was has
there ever been any dominant such as race or gender that you
have sat next to prosecuted in a court room? Have you seen in
again after you need to rework that question? I will if you
don't understand it. -I got it. Thank you. So if you take all of
these, all of these groups.
And and you.
You you ask yourself, are they more or less likely to be
involved in our criminal justice system? I would say every every
identifying group there would. It would affect you whether
you're a child or adult OK.
In in. In doing this for
15 years. Most of my clients, either as a defense attorney or
as a prosecutor, fits into one of those categories and and I
think when you put and I'm going to put in their mental health.
You have physically and developmentally disabled, mental
health is huge and it's so huge among young people and and unless
you're there in court. You would be surprised to see how many
teenagers are suffering from
depression. I didn't believe you know. I grew up in a strict
household. You know my mom.
Thought that she could spank you outta or whoop you out of
depression. Did you do what she wanted? Were not in that that
that time is gone. That's assault. You can't do that
anymore. Children need help and there's a lot of mental health
issues with young people. When you think about someone who is
homeless and homeless is really key, there are so the amount of
homelessness. If you just drive around any urban environment,
you're going to see more and
more tents. While there are families and you see those cars
on the side of Rd their families and we have when I worked as a
juvenile prosecutor, you had about 20% of youth were
homeless. And would say how do they end up homeless? Well, if
you have a child in the house who is for some reason and we
don't even need to identify where they fit on this list, but
they are having problems, communication problems,
interaction problems with the parents, then there's more
likely than not that child may leave the home.
Well, the parents may kick that child out of the home every day.
If you want to go and I would challenge everyone who's
listening. Go to a juvenile court. It's a open courtroom.
Sit there and before the days over, you're going to hear
multiple parents tell the judge that the child is not welcome.
Back in the house. OK, so those parents have been dealing with
these things. These issues since the child is young and they're
fed up. So I think homelessness is one of the things that you
will really see that is.
That is very prevalent among children who are charged because
their homeless, because they don't have the financial
resources, they cannot complete some of the diversion programs
they end up being charged. It's hard for them to comply with
probation and probation requires that you do UA's that you,
not you abstain from any type of drugs, marijuana. So while most
youth who smoke marijuana, you know they do it without any
punishment. Someone who's
homeless. Under the supervision of the court they will be
punished and that will lead to incarceration. So I think that
every you know, all of these fit into particular identifiers to
someone who who could end up being disadvantage in our
juvenile justice system.
-Awesome and it kind of caveat that too again my 2 1/2 years I
worked in a diversion program for Bremen Hall and I did a lot
of many of those, probably about 90% of the juveniles I crossed
paths with did have some sort of mental illness from disruptive
behavior to depression. To even,
you know. Just being homeless is really, you know, taking a toll
on him. Many times that was probably their only meal he was
gonna get for the evening that we provide it there. So you are
dead spot on and appreciate you sharing it.-And Jashon I want to
add something you know if anyone goes to the court and go to our
juvenile court and listen to how
many children. And I'm not just talking about boys, I'm talking
about 13, fourteen, 15 year old girls who are living in homeless
encampments. That's the environment that they're going
to. So it's, you know, it's it's a. It's a huge issue. And when
the parents lose control and there's not sufficient resources
and in the household and the community, you know you can just
imagine the horrors that we hear that these young children go
through when they, when they are living on these homeless
encampments. -Yes, that is that is entirely correct. There
again, you know even students in our classrooms are going through
some of these things like that, so it's it's just always be
aware to listen so this next slide is another video. It's a
personal video from a young man. In this, again is called Going
Too Far: Our Kids in Handcuffs. So just you know, this is from
the ACLU and again, just about 223 minute video and listen to
this young man story.
OK, my name is Kyle Thompson. I like playing football, playing
video games, hanging out with my
friends. The vice principle said if I had a school full of kids
like yours, I'd be the happiest man in the district cause a very
sensitive kid. I mean, he's he's fun to coach, is fun to be
around for somebody with his personality to get in this kind
of trouble is so shocking to me. I didn't see it coming. I could
never have imagined this just don't face value.
I can't answer. I find it hard
to believe. I had a list of my bag of it was called. It was
titled hitless, but it wasn't really hurt. Anybody and my
friend took it out of my notebook. I saw him take it out,
so I took it back from him in my teacher came over. She took it
from me and I got up and I grab the paper and we were pulling it
back and forth. All the witness statement said the teacher was
laughing. The teacher was playing. We were all laughing.
We were all playing.
When we were pulling back and forth, she was laughing at
first, so I thought it was just a joke, but she got serious and
I let go and she left the class and then all monitor came and
they escorted me to the office. The principle told police
officers attending to the police station and the scariest part
was probably being handcuffed in inside of there. I felt that I
deserve maybe a couple days of
suspension. At most.
But I didn't think it was really 180 days worth of. Consequence.
When there's activities up at the school he can attend, he
can't go watch his sister. He can't watch his former teammates
play. I can't play football.
So really, I just total football around my friends, play video
games, watch TV, but I don't really see my friends as much.
Here I am now thousands of dollars later, 6 seven months
down the road.
And all day long when I'm gone, I worry about Kyle. My son has
gotten progressively depressed.
I still see remnants of like the old Kyle, but there's a sadness
there. And that kills me.
I want him to be back in school. I need him to be in a school
building around other children. It seems like it would be. It
would be pretty hard going back after being out of school for a
long time. But it is something I would like to do.
-Yeah, you got anything you want to add
on to that video. How you feel, your synopsis on it?
-Yes, so. This was a big put. There was a big push a few years
ago and I was and I was in the juvenile. I was working as a
juvenile prosecutor. All the schools and this was in Pierce
County Tacoma Public Schools. They had a zero tolerance policy
for threats. After some of the recent school shootings. So they
had a policy that automatic expulsion and for a student who
will make a threat.
And I will say from what I've experienced, it didn't matter
your race if you made a threat, you were gone and the
prosecutors office had a policy that you would be charged with a
felony. So for instance, if a child I'm trying to think of
real cases that I had. I had a case where a kid was joking
around on it on this phone an about the school shootings.
And the student mentioned that I have a list and these will be
the first on my list. Well, that text message was shared with
a parent. It went to the school. The school got shut down for a
day. The kid ended up coming to juvenile court, the child and
with his parents. He's never been in trouble. Straight A
student, the student was white and you know, I have to battle with
our supervisors to say what are we doing? This should be
diversion. You know this should be a diversion. This kid doesn't
have. They don't have any weapons in a home.
The kid doesn't know how to use a gun, but it was an
overreaction and those overreactions I think you know.
I think this is 1 situation where it was zero tolerance, but
I do think that when you're in negotiating, if you're a
prosecutor going to bat for someone, there generally gonna
go to bat for.
Children that they feel they relate to and that's just.
Our criminal justice system works, so I I think that while I
that policy is just terrible, I think is a disgusting policy
because most of these young
children. There there probably being bullied and they're being
hurt and no one takes that into
consideration. But I think that it still can have a
disproportionate fact affect on students of color, because a lot
of these cases with the zero tolerance they were negotiated.
So if you had parents who were showing up to the court family
members who were going their community members who were
present on behalf of these children usually deals were
brokered. They were alternatives to felonies. But when you saw
children with no family support, or maybe there with their uncle
or older brother and sister.
They usually didn't have someone advocating for them and ask what
happens to a lot of children of color in our criminal justice
system. They don't have the family network, they don't have
the infrastructure at home, and because most of the process
prosecutors are not people of color, they sometimes don't see
the humanity in the children, and disparities happen, and I
think they just I. I believe
that. The Pierce County just there was a study at Raymond
Hall, Pierce County Juvenile Court, and it found that.
Juven children of color were less likely to be able to be
admitted into diversion programs than white children charged with
similar fences. And you and you can't tell me that that's not
affected by the people who are making this decision, which are
predominately white. So I think that the lack of diversity in
our criminal justice system can can further hurt our children of
color as they as they entered the zero tolerance policy's.
Just like the video show.
-Green and again I have research on you know how mental these
type of traumatic instant instances happened to these kids
and the effects of it. So I won't dive into that because
that ain't this, not is. That's not the platform for it but again,
I understand when it Mom said that he was going to fall into
depression and again is so many different reasons and how it can
affect them long term so.
Alright, so here's a nice graph for you, folks to take a quick
look at and again you kind of seeing from school to prison.
And on the other side you can see from foster care to prison so you
can see the demographics there. About 40% of students that got
explelled from US schools each year are black 70% of students
involved in in school arrest or referred to law enforcement are
black or Latino. You have three
3.5 times. Likely that black students are three and three 3
1/2 times more likely to be suspended than whites and then
black and Latino students are twice as likely not to graduate
high school as whites, and at the very bottom, of all of males, all
males in the state and federal prison do not have a high School
deploma, about 68% from that data, and then on the other side
you can see those students of color or kids of color coming
out of foster care system.
About 50% of children are in the foster care system are black or
Latino. 30% of foster care youth entering the juvenile justice
system are placed. Placement related behavioral cases. 25% of
young people leaving foster care will be incarcerated within a
few years after turning 18.50% of young people leaving. Foster
care would be unemployed within a few years after turning 18,
and 70% of inmates in the state of California and again it various.
It varies across states are former.
Foster care you so again, this is a serious matter.
It's not just the data that's explaining it, but I mean it's
happening everywhere and. I just don't see it getting better.
James, you got anything you want to add on to that? -Well yeah
it's not going to get better until we start to rethink our
criminal justice system. And like I said, I understand
there's a lot of people who are passionate about changing police
and that's a long discussion. I based on my experience.
I believe that police react to prosecutors and
judges. OK, a police officer is less likely to pull his gun and
use it if he believes that he would be charged as a criminal.
And put in jail. That's just a fact. OK, it's a deterrent, but
when you know that the prosecutors office won't
prosecute you, then you're more likely to be a little bit more
or a lot more brazen in your in your conduct, especially toward
people of color. And we see that today when you go down to Pierce
County where I used to work and you ask yourself, OK, there are
disparities with men of color. And let's just say, African
American man. Let's say how many
African American? Prosecutors, do you have in Pierce County?
None. How many Native American prosecutors you have? None. How
many Latino, you know. So when you go down that list and you
start seeing these disparities, just say, wow, the people who
are making decisions about our children about these children of
color, they are not represented. There's no one of color there
too or very few to be involved in this discussion. OK, who are
involved in this discussion? Who are looking at these youth.
And there's a difference. You need people in the criminal
justice system who recognize the humanity in everyone. You can't
just pick and choose people because you relate to them
because you relate to their family, because maybe you know
their family, you know, and and so it's very difficult. And when
you look at these disparities, when you when your person of
color and you enter the criminal justice system and there is no
one who can relate to you, you walk in there and there's no
one, OK? And you gotta think it has to affect judges when they
don't see a black man or a Native American or Latino male
and or female and or working as professionals as lawyers, as
police officers or his deputies. And the only time they see him
is when they're in a yellow jumpsuit so they begin to.
Treat everyone the same. You gotta have people from diverse
backgrounds and experiences in these positions, so as much as
people want to protest the police, please keep on doing it.
But you're never going to get to change that you want until our
prosecutors and judges represent the diversity of our community.
And that's the and to me. That's the biggest issue. Even as a as
a black man who is a criminal defense lawyer in a prosecutor.
I, you know, people look at me when I come when I'm picking a
jury, the jury looks at me like
wow. What did he get charged with? He's looking pretty good
and I'm like, no. I'm representing the man in the suit
next to me. The white man in the suit next to me is my client.
I've had to say that multiple times in front of juries because
they don't expect to see us.
The criminal justice system won't change until we have
more people from diverse backgrounds in positions of
power, and so when I look at these, I go right into what's
happening in the courtroom and that's why I challenge
everyone to go into a courtroom look and see what's
happening. Stop, turn off the TV for a moment.
The police brutality is going to
continue. Go into court room and see what's happening and
then I think people will start changing their you know and
their approach to advocacy and their protests and aim it
toward those courthouses where their true and justice happens.
-Awesome, if you don't mind James on actually one real short
question, if you don't mind sharing this with, you know our
students in this audience and again yourself going through law
school. How was that in the on a population standards and how
many of yourself did you see? You know, in law school and I
notice is not necessarily about the school to prison pipeline,
but this is a step again taking those steps of change. And you
know what motivated you?
-So.
You know, when I my motivation, I'm really competitive so I you
can't tell me I don't care what's the ticket statistics you
show me, I believe in myself and I think so. Going through law
school wasn't difficult. I tell students all the time going
through law school is not difficult. Now if you have a
family, have children. Of course there's going to be time issues.
There's going to be financial issues. Those are the difficult
parts. But if you, as far as the work, if you do the work, the
work is not difficult.
OK, I think people tell us that it's difficult to discourage us
because there is a 0 sum game. The more, more diverse people
that are entered the profession, the less jobs are going to be
available. That's my opinion. I encourage everyone my law
partner is Native American from Black Feet Tribe. We went to
Columbia Law School and we don't. We believe that we are
very good at what we do. We do a great job for our clients and
there's no reason for people to feel discouraged about going.
To law school is not that difficult. You're needed anyone
who is conscious. I don't care what your background is, as long
as you care about people and you see their inner humanity we need
you. When I went to law school, my wife and I were the only two
African Americans in my class.
But that wasn't a factor in US completing our degrees because
we were going to complete our
degrees. And as far as faculty, I believe there were two African
American faculty members.
You know, and not just. You know, I'm I'm focusing on
African American 'cause I am, but there were very few minor
people of color and people from diverse backgrounds there. In
the law school in positions of power. We did have a black
Dean. He lasted about two years before he was pushed out
and I was Dean Joe Knight who was an amazing mentor to me. But
there are very few. I think the statistics in Washington is less
than 6% are African American. If you go nationwide less than 5%.
If you go to Latino, I think it's less than 2%. If you go to
Pacific Islander less than 1% Native American, less than 1%.
So those if you go to the American Bar Association
website, you can see the appalling lack of diversity in
our in our in our as far as attorneys And are law schools
and then so you go down the pipeline to our criminal justice
system an you see that there are inequities and I think that the
lack of participating.
People of color people from diverse backgrounds, I think,
affect our system in the type of justice has exacted among
children color.
-Awesome look at that, that was a mouthful, but that was that's
that's phenomenal alright. Driving forward. So what are the
factors that contributes to the school to prison pipeline?
First one no child Left Behind Act. Then again, this is you
know me as a researcher. I go research did not die. I will sit
on and research for hours and hours and hours until I find
what I feel like is correct. And again, this is 1 aspect of it so
that no child Left Behind Act. It was utilizing standardized
test test scores to determine the overall performance of the
school or district. These policies, then converged with the
President George W Bush no child Left Behind Act of 2001, which
centered schooling on accountability and standardized
testing and incentivizing pushing low scoring students off
school rosters. Together, these policy cemented the school to
prison pipeline, so again, not every single student is going to
land at that standardized area of testing. Specially, it comes
to testing scores so.
A few students shared this with me some years back about how
they were pushed out because they wouldn't at the certain
score level in during their sophomore year in high school,
they were pushed out to alternative school to finish out
their school and I guess they keep the schools scores up high
in this instance at this school. So Jay, you got anything on the
No Child Left Behind Act? How do you feel about that you got any
Good info? -I believe that.
You know, I, I don't. I don't have much to say on the No Child
left behind at what I can say is that mentoring and volunteering
can can help. Offset the damage that was done and I just want to
encourage everyone to.
Participate if you everyone you can volunteer at any diversion
program, whether it's in King or Pierce County, you can go there
and sign up. They do a
background check. They're not that stringent, but you
want to be honest with everything and and it's
really a good opportunity to engage the youth to be
present. I again, I can't repeat this enough, 'cause I
always tell everyone go inside a courtroom.
If there's a protest in the courtroom, put the picket sign
down and go inside the courtroom. That's that's that's
powerful. That is so powerful just showing up and being in a
courtroom, letting letting the court staff, the judges. The
prosecutor know that you're watching them and that you're
not going anywhere. So yes, and I know there's some questions,
so I'm going to pause for questions, Jashon. -Yeah, we can go
ahead. You got any questions we can go ahead, Jody.
-OK, thank you. We have some great questions here.
So just one really quick one, which actually follows right up
on what you said. Mr Curtis, which is where is the nearest
juvenile court that's open for the public to actually go in and
sit and listen like you suggest.
-All of them. Or you can go to the websites and a lot of them.
Some of the smaller municipalities have, are live
streaming on YouTube.
Or they all have.
Zoom credentials where you can sign in but the courtrooms are
still open. You can go into court. I just finished a four
week trial at the Regional Justice Center. Courtroom is
open. People can come in.
They they do have a social distancing policy, but bring
your mask come to court.
-OK, and so just any any in our surrounding area. Just search
online for it. -Yes, so you can just go so you got the regional
Justice Center right there and can't you got the Pierce County
spirit Court right down downtown Tacoma City, County, State
Building? You got the 2nd Ave you got the.
King County Superior Court go to
court. -Alright, thank you.
yo you talked about this a little bit in terms of talking about
the role of people who have
walked. Who have some shared experiences, right? So this is a
question which is what what's factored as the race of teachers
play in student discipline. Do you have any idea any
information about whether students are disciplined less
frequently when their teachers look like them?
-I you know, I I don't have any research on that. The one thing
I will say is that you know, I'm I, I think that.
It's important and maybe not just from a disciplinary
standpoint, but I'm just just for the student to see someone.
I think it is powerful. Now the student will take any love and
support that they can get, so I'm just because you don't. My
mentor at when I was in Community College was Asian and
we're going to be having lunch next week so they don't need to.
You know, look like you and I don't think I think it's more
about people who care and they can see your own, your your
humanity. So I was walking at the grocery store and I was
walking down the aisle with my son and I saw a man with his son
and he had a Black Lives Matter shirt on an he looked me in the
eye. He just kept going.
So and I and then I walked around the corner and I saw two
young men in a hoodie with their pants sag and they looked at me
and he said how you doing, Sir? You need people, then sometimes
you know people from the same and those are two African
American youth. I probably have more in common with the man who with
his son who asked me with the Black Lives Matter shirt on
didn't even recognize me. There's something about you,
know, cultural lines of communication that are important
and that we understand. We understand that we have to speak
and acknowledge each other.
If you walk past a black man without speaking, they're going
to be upset with you. It's just something that an if you go out
with a person of color and The Walking path, people with
knowledge. I know in the black community it's a big deal to
walk past a black man in any setting and not acknowledge him,
especially when your one on one.
Uh huh. -So this is kind of built on the role of teachers. How
should community colleges respond to what you've shared? I
can we have an early childhood Ed program? Obviously we have
our criminal justice program. We have a lot of running start
students at our school. Just how should community colleges be
responding to this?
-I, I think community colleges you know encourage encourage
students to think about careers in law, expose them to it, bring
in people, judges you know, like we have a very we have some. We
have some powerful people from diverse backgrounds in our
criminal justice system we need to identify them and bring them
to the students so they can see themselves participating in our
system. Because like I said, police are just one part.
Attorneys, the judge is the you know, the core staff that the
bailiffs, the, you know those are the people who are going to
be making decision the probation officers. They make huge
decisions. So I think we can. We can encourage participation
because right now I think a lot of people from diverse
background don't want to go into criminal justice or don't want
to be prosecutors and judges and it hurts. This hurts us as a
community. Because we don't
have. Backgrounds.
So I think encouraging students.
Exposing them to the importance of diversity in
our criminal justice system. I and encouraging that. I
think that's huge.
-Doctor Banks you want to add
anything. -Oh, I'm just. I mean, he's 100% accurate again, from
my experience, you know, being at Green River when I do run
across students that look like me, they tend to tie to me very
quickly. They really attached to my hip really quickly and they
work two times or three times even harder because they finally
somebody that looks like them that you know that is actually
leading the classroom. I mean, I had several students say I was
there first black instructor ever had, so it was really
touching them and they.
Again, I never seen the students work that hard
and, you know, come, this class, actually energetic
and ready to work 'cause they finally seen somebody
that looks like them so.
-Thank you. The next questions. So this is a question. Somebody
who's working in the fields. We have quite a few community
members who joined us today. So this person says in my job I
work a lot with unaccompanied homeless youth who are
transitioning to college. I appreciate your comments about
the relationship between the criminal legal system
homelessness and mental health
for you. What advice would you give me as a
practitioner in this area?
-Well, first of all, I just want to thank you for the work you do
because it's so important and what I would do is I wouldn't,
you know, I I think that we need to develop like a clearinghouse
of resources, so trying to expand partnerships, whatever
you know what're the other nonprofits doing? What services
are out there and just pulling our resources because you can't
do it alone. So I think the more we can engage people, the more
that we can pull people together
to. To have to share this responsibility, especially with
homeless youth and in some of the mental health issues or
substance abuse issues that accompany that, you know, I
think the more resources you can pull together, the better, and
just bringing more people into organizations into that world so
they can be supportive. Because resources are very limited.
Specially now because money is drying up everywhere. So the
more people can do together, we can kind of sharing that burden.
-This is looking for some advice for somebody, so mr. Mr.
Curtis, a child I know from our Hall who still incarcerated and
is now 18. Is interested in studying law. What are the added
difficulties for incarcerated folks? What's the best way for
him to pursue this dream, especially starting now when
he's still in the system? He asked me what books he could
start reading. Pierce County has a law library but no classes or
you need any.
Support that way give any any advice and suggestions.
-Yeah, you know it's what I would encourage anyone who
is weather incarcerated or not is just to read.
There is no particular book that's going to.
You know, give you the the real experience of being in a court
room or meeting with someone. Just continue to read, read
about the history of this country, read about, you know
you know our Founding fathers. Because all of that plays a
role, especially when you're going to be a trial lawyer. You
have to communicate with people who do not think like you. You
know, I, I communicate and I'm paid to communicate with people
who I probably have very little.
In common with, but it's my job to meet them where they're at
and to bring them and put them in a position where they can,
you know, listen to us and give my client a fair trial. It's not
an easy job, so the more you read, the more you can learn
about other people, because as a defense attorney who only can
communicate with people who share their own beliefs, they're
not very good. You gotta be able to put your conservative hat on
your liberal hat on. You have to put all that on in order to pick
a jury. And it's important. So just keep reading.
-OK, and then we have one one final question here. If we have
another moment. At least with thank you very, very much. And
can you speak to the positive role? Internships can play for
students as they strive to reach for you and doctor Banks are
today. -Internships are huge.
And I'll tell you, so my my legal assistant was started off
as an intern start off. and is a was a community
a Community College student and is the backbone of my firm. Keeps
me in line, my clients and the
other attorneys. It started off
with an internship. And now it's a full time job, so I think that
internship will expose you to the realities of it. Surround an
and I love having interns in because I love to teach and
share experiences. My interns go to trial with me. I had an
intern who set through a two week trial, is set at the table
next to me in our client and they didn't get to participate
in say anything, but they were there in. The judge allowed
that. So just having those opportunities to be exposed to
the criminal justice system are
so valuable. If you can, if you can just reach out to someone,
call you know, and I know that I welcome opportunities to have
people shouting me for a day. I think it's important. I think
it's everything. -And again, that caveat that real quick is
that when you internship, you get the opportunity to see
exactly what to do. So if it's not something you want to do,
you actually got a chance to see it for yourself and then
you can go to Plan B or Plan C not saying that
they don't want to go into losses, I'm just saying in any
internship this is an opportunity for you to really
see what your career path would look like and things that you
would do so it will open your eyes to what you want to do.
You see it yourself, so.
-So we've hit our. We've got a tiny bit of our our 1:00 PM and
so do you have any any final things you'd like to say? I know
there's so much, but any final words for us? -Well, what I would
say really quickly is just I just want to encourage everyone
to get involved. You know, come
inside the courthouse. Come inside the courthouse. See
what's going on. OK, it's going to have a profound effect on
you when you witness what happening. Go to a sentencing
docket. OK, look, you can look it up online. Look up the
sentencing docket OK and then go to the arraignment docket
and then you will see if you want to see injustice. I know
that it's it catches everyone's attention. When you see someone
being beat by the police.
Go to sentencing here bout go to the arrangements and when you
see that. People based on race
or being. Bail, bail at half $1,000,000 versus one of a
different race. Dale being 5000, then at that hits home and
that's what's happening in our court system. Go and see it and
let them know that you're
watching. Thank you guys.
-Again, I didn't get to finish the rest of the slides in a
PowerPoint. I can do that another day at anytime. It's no
big deal there. I really appreciate everybody coming to
this. And again, this is a serious conversation that we
need to have. As you know, as an institution as faculty and staff
as students and understand some of these, these barriers, that's
in a way that is affecting you, know portion and the population
of our youth.
I'm not saying we gotta put it on our backs and figure it out,
but you know, we gotta continue to be on the front lines
fighting and trying to make some change and try to improve in
equities and make it equitable for everyone. So again, James,
you know I appreciate you every single day. You my Big Brother
mentor an I really appreciate you being apart of this this
webinar with me and.
Sharing their fantastic knowledge so.
-Thank you for the invitation, Jashon, thank you very much.
-Thank you both so much. I regret that we didn't make this a 2
hour. Chunk of time. Clearly we need way more time than we
have, but we all really, really appreciate.
We are learning from you today,
so thank you.-You're welcome, thank you. -OK, thank you all for
showing up. -Alright.